and THIS is why the world need a new CART sim

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 30 May 2001 01:26:17

Hey we all have to realize that even the widest viewed racing series are
at best regional markets. How many folks in the deep south of the States
watch F1? If Speedvision hadn't come along(which is only available in
probably 2/3rds of the US markets) I'd never have known about Touring cars,
Truck Racing(the big tractor rigs) We almost NEVERused to get coverage of
Motorcycle GP races...(still don't see enough outdoor motocross)
SCCA races..??? not a chance...I'm sure there are tons of folks on the
States side of the pond who have never heard of the great riders from the
Isle of Mann TT races or the famous hallowed sports car stars of the past.
Ask the average or even above average US fan to name the leaders in F3 or
FIA Sportscars...I don't think you will find too many sucessful answers.
So on behalf of my fellow YANKS and as ONE who sat through pouring
downpours at Portland Oregon while Cart Champcars zipped around the
roadcourse, I appologize for the impatience many of our fellow newsgroupers
displayed.
Beleive me, in these days of limited TV windows for events to be
completed...I'm sure the Network Television folks would LOVE to see Nascar
events run in the rain, just to make sure the dang events got finished so
they could show more Golf. But at this point..with the closeness of the
walls and the speeds modern cars race at...oval rain racing would be a Dale
Earnhardt type tragedy every wet race.
Now, we need to educate you some on American Legends...anyone know of some
good sites our Euro neighbors could frequent to pick up some racing history
from our side of the Atlantic?
dave henrie

> >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll
> >know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals
> >because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scared
of
> >that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining.

> um.

> Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a
> CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly
> don't get to see enough of it. I've only recently invested in
> satellite TV and am now able to follow CART. Previously I got to see
> Cart races once a year or so on the other local sports channels.

> My questions have been answered and if it makes me look like a dumbass
> to you, thats fine by me.

> I've never seen a wet CART race although I have seen CART races
> cancelled due to weather. I can't honestly recall if it was an oval
> or just very bad weather on a street course or not.

> > I am amazed by the sheer scale of the event. 400 000 people, a month
> > of qualifying etc, but I think it is pretty much ignored by most
> > people outside the US. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 of my
> > friends who have ever watched it. Same goes for Le Mans, Daytona
> > 500, Isle of Man TT, RAC Rally, Bathhurst, or whatever you care to
> > mention.

> >>Pretty narrowminded...
> I was referring to my friends :) And when it comes to motor-racing, I
> guess that's true. Most of them are more interested in Rugby, Soccer
> or Cricket than *any* motorsport. I guess part of it is from a
> shortage of exposure to these sports. We only had TV from about 1977
> and decent overseas motorsports coverage is something relatively new
> to many South Africans. I probably now what little I do from games
> rather than watching it on TV.

> Nascar fans probably will call me crazy (or worse) when I say that I
> don't have a clue who 90% of the drivers in Nascar 4 are and that the
> first time I heard about Richard Petty was when he endorsed a game for
> the commodore 64. I've heard vaguely of Kyle Petty (probably via
> Nascar 2 or 3) and only recently heard that Adam Petty was killed. I
> don't mean to offend anyone, but we really don't get much exposure to
> Nascar on our local TV stations.

> Sorry to go so far off-topic and anybody wanting to argue it further
> can mail me instead.

> And finally, sorry if my original post p'd off some folks. Wasn't
> intentional, honest!

by **Kevin Gavit** » Wed, 30 May 2001 01:41:13

As any race fan knows Penske has more cubic dollars than anyone else yet the
last time he came to Indy he failed to qualify a car. People who had
mortgaged their homes to put together a single lifetime attempt to make just
one Indy field got in.

Penske's cubic dollars meant, and mean, squat.

KFG

by **Gaul** » Wed, 30 May 2001 01:59:52

> >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll
> >know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals
> >because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scared
of
> >that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining.

> um.

> Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a
> CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly
> don't get to see enough of it. I've only recently invested in
> satellite TV and am now able to follow CART. Previously I got to see
> Cart races once a year or so on the other local sports channels.

> My questions have been answered and if it makes me look like a dumbass
> to you, thats fine by me.

> I've never seen a wet CART race although I have seen CART races
> cancelled due to weather. I can't honestly recall if it was an oval
> or just very bad weather on a street course or not.

Keep watching- you'll see some great CART races in the rain on both road and
street courses. Just not on the ovals.

by **Gaul** » Wed, 30 May 2001 02:03:43

> Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to
> crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice
> in consecutive years?

Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she
seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like to
see her do better.

by **David No** » Wed, 30 May 2001 02:18:42

Sorry but it's not that black and white Dave, it's green. You have to
consider the unlimited $$$$'s available to Penske & Ganassi. I enjoy both
series for what they are but as in 'all' racing series the results usually
equal dollar input. A quick comparison of sponsorship in both series should
give an indication of what the outcome might be. I know I wasn't surprised.

I totally agree we need a new CART sim but fail to see the connection here.

DN

by **Thom j** » Wed, 30 May 2001 02:30:53

Darko, Actually a very timely and profoundly accurate point!!

| American? The World is very small out there.
| Darko

by **Olav K. Malm** » Wed, 30 May 2001 02:56:20

istoff writes:

> >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll
> >know that CART drivers run in the rain on road courses, but not at ovals
> >because that's way too dangerous. I recall the F1 drivers getting scared of
> >that wall last year at the Indy F1 race when it wasn't raining.

> um.

> Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a
> CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly
> don't get to see enough of it. I've only recently invested in
> satellite TV and am now able to follow CART. Previously I got to see
> Cart races once a year or so on the other local sports channels.

Maybe a little apology is in order from my side. If you said you
thought but wasnt sure about rain racing, the facts would have
presented themselves. But since you claimed and made a point out of
that they did not race in the rain, it looked very much like you
knew what you were talking about, but still were far out. There are
too many ignorant CART bashers around.

Keep watching those CART races, they are great fun.

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

by **Sundow** » Wed, 30 May 2001 03:05:28

I still think that Ganassi and Penske's pockets have nothing to do with
their performances at Indy. I think that because their drivers had never
been there, they weren't as apt to make banzai moves to get ahead, rather
waiting to stalk the field and wait for people to fall out. That's always
Penske's style, except for 1994, when that new Ilmor made a fool out of
everybody at Indianapolis...

Money drives racing. Just as Penske and Ganassi have the big pockets in
CART, Menard, Panther, Galles, and A.J. Foyt have the big pockets in the
IRL. Lowering costs (which is the big salami of the IRL) has nothing to do
with how muich money you have for R&D, testing, and other stuff (a good pit
crew, driver development, etc.)...

Money drives ALL kinds of racing. In sports cars, Grand-Am was singing the
same song as the IRL regarding lowering costs, and Grand-Am laughed at
American Le Mans when Audi started winning day-in and day-out. But at last
check, the juggernaut called Dyson Racing is kicking a** and taking names
later in Grand-Am. If they don't break, either #16 or #20 is in the winner's
circle. They took the air restrictor loophole away, and what do they do?
They win the 6 Hours at The Glen...

I'm a Penske fan, and whether it's Rusty in NASCAR, Helio and Gil in CART
(though I wish it was still Little Al and Emmo), or Ryan Newman in ARCA, I
still root for him. Quit the damn whining and let's race for Pete's sake!

As for "CART sucks," I'm a CART fan and I think some of the tracks should
go, too. If they couldn't run the Texas oval, they should have run the Texas
road course instead of cheating the race fan out of money. Detroit sucks,
and Nazareth does, too. Ditto with that crazy new Vancouver layout. But the
only IRL races I watch are Texas and Indianapolis. I don't see anything
different in the IRL philosophy-wise than I do in CART. The deep pockets
will always win, and when they don't, someone comes along and gets a fluke
win...

by **Ian** » Wed, 30 May 2001 03:51:40

>istoff writes:

>> >Wow, what a dumbass...If you actually knew what your talking about you'll

>> um.

>> Thanks for the nice comments guys. I certainly *don't* claim to be a
>> CART expert. I don't know the history of the sport and I certainly

>Maybe a little apology is in order from my side. If you said you
>thought but wasnt sure about rain racing, the facts would have
>presented themselves. But since you claimed and made a point out of
>that they did not race in the rain, it looked very much like you
>knew what you were talking about, but still were far out. There are
>too many ignorant CART bashers around.

hi,

I reread my post and I see what you mean. Sorry Olav & Alex for
sounding off a bit. I guess i didn't make my point very clear *or*
give some background to where my lack of CART knowledge came from.
That said though, I enjoy being enlightened and/or corrected by fellow
R.A.S'ers as it makes me enjoy these sports so much more. I certainly
don't want to become like some people here who dig themselves deeper
and deeper into holes and end up not being taken seriously.
Well, I managed to see Jacques Villeneuve dueling the Penskes at
Elkhart Lake and Indianapolis (both in 95, I think). He won both
races in a thrilling display. I got the feeling that the car he drove
that year (Ganassi? Blue Car, Players was the sponsor, i think) wasn't
as good as the Penskes of Al Unser Jr, Emerson Fittipaldi and um er,
Paul Tracy? Anyway. I thoroughly enjoyed those battles as well as
the points finish at Laguna Seca which I think was the title clincher,
although he didn't win the race. I think the only reason they showed
some of those races was Nigel Mansell's participation which had
heightened interest in the sport for F1 fans.

Once they introduced satellite tv in SA and ESPN was introduced,
regular non-satellite folks like myself got cut off from the whole
CART / IRL split and subsequent seasons. I remember going into a
sports bar one sunday night as they normally played ESPN. Just my
luck that some Karaoke twit set up and started a show for the evening
and I gave up watching race with the sound off. Its pretty hard to
follow an oval race with no sound and especially harder if you don't
know the cars. I had a relatively current ICR2 raceset and I probably
could have studied beforehand, had I known. :)

This year i have satellite and I have already watched 1 or 2 CART
races. I hope I can catch some Nascar as well, just to be able to
follow some of the talk and maybe I'll enjoy Nascar 4 more. I bought
N4 and F1RC the same week and haven't given N4 much attention.

Regards all,
istoff

by **Eldre** » Wed, 30 May 2001 05:19:10

Vincent) writes:
>On Mon, 28 May 2001 14:09:46 +0000 (UTC), "David"

>>Well the pressure situations was proved this year and last with Greg Ray
>>stuffing his car when under pressure from a CART driver. He was not able
>>to keep pace with Juan last year and well pulled off a similar mistake this
>>year with Mike Andretti breathing down his neck.

> Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to
>crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice
>in consecutive years?

Nope - Sarah Fisher crashed in both races, too... :(

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Thom j** » Wed, 30 May 2001 08:42:57

Question kiddiez' & no BS... Do you think Sarah Fischer will have the
arm, leg, body power to last a 500mile'r? I'm not belittling ladies but it
seems when it comes to long endurance and constant heavy weighted
pressure would be tuff on her. Curious minds would like to know! :o)

| Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she
| seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like to
| see her do better.

by **Kevin Gavit** » Wed, 30 May 2001 08:59:09

> > Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to
> > crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice
> > in consecutive years?

> Nope- Sarah Fischer has done it the last 2 years as well. A shame- she
> seems so earnest and unpretentious in her love of the sport. I'd like to
> see her do better.

Hot tip, keep your eye open for the name " Vanina Ickx."

She looks like her dads little girl, which, surprisingly, turns out to be a
good thing, but more important she's GOOD and agressive enough that I
wouldn't want to meet her alone in a dark alley.

I'll go out on a limb and put my money on her being a legitimate world class
contender.

I'm doing pretty good with these predictions lately. My last picks were Greg
Moore when he was running his family owned car in Indy Lights, and JPM and
HCN when they were driving Barber Dodge.

KFG

by **Kevin Gavit** » Wed, 30 May 2001 09:04:23

I remember the days when Roger was a driver. People like to forget that
Penske has the sponsorship dollars because he was a proven winner *before*
he had money.

Mark Donohue ascribed the success of Penske racing to one thing, car
preperation and professionalism. Two, Two things. Car preperation,
professionalsim and an almost fantatical devotion to the. . . .

Oh, sorry.

You get my point.

KFG

by **Jeff Vince** » Wed, 30 May 2001 10:37:03

>Vincent) writes:

>> Does Greg have the distinction of being the only Indy 500 driver to
>>crash (or be drivectly involved in collisions during the race) twice
>>in consecutive years?

>Nope - Sarah Fisher crashed in both races, too... :(

Hmmm, I obviously phrased that poorly.

My point was Greg making contact twice *each* year. In 2000 he hit
the wall solo twice in separate incidents, this year he hit the wall,
then collected Jon Herb a few laps later.

That's a little excessive, no? I was impressed with Greg with what
he did with nothing when he started. But now that he has one of the
best cars under him, he seems to think that he can beat anyone or
drives it into the wall trying.

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **Jeff Vince** » Wed, 30 May 2001 10:42:55

Talking about Sarah, it's funny how her interview on the 2001 500
telecast almost made it sound (reading between the lines) like her
2000 Indy 500 appearance wasn't much more than a publicity stunt (from
memory): "Everything was hurry, rush-rush, it happened so fast. I
hadn't run many races. I was overwhelmed by it all...".

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark