rec.autos.simulators

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

Don Wilsh

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Don Wilsh » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 03:22:24

Obvisouly no one at NASCAR ever took a lap in PAPYRUS N2002 at Taladega!

The idea that this 13 gallon tank would spread the pack is pure folly!

We race Taladega ever day here.  What happends when the
race starts.  The pack is spread from the start, but because of the effects
in the
game of draft everyone in the  back come to the front, so a pack is
reformed.

The only exception to pack reform is if the gaps in the field over 1.7
seconds to
prevent drafting.

The draft is about 11 mph faster than non draft in the game and about the
same
in real life maybe little less.  So  what happen after the first stop, they
all separated
alittle and than all recollected.

Still no solution.. But a Friend of mine called me on the phone and gave me
the solution.

Maybe this is rumor or fact. .hehe..

He says take away all the air guns from the pit crews!!  Give them 1
LUGWRENCH and than
if the the single tire dont get tired out.  These cars can pit in about 2
minutes.. hehe  I thought
it was funny!!  That will spread the pack!

--
Donald Wilshe
888 588-9207
Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog
Library
www.martelbros.com
Other Interest:
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Don Burnett

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Don Burnett » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 06:06:22

Of course they haven't, didn't you see - they use NT2003...
:)

Don Burnette


> Obvisouly no one at NASCAR ever took a lap in PAPYRUS N2002 at
> Taladega!

snip
Gord

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Gord » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:50:48


Since NT2003 is soooo "realistic", maybe Nascar should make them drive with
game controllers instead of steering wheels     :-))

Don Burnett

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Don Burnett » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:19:06




>> Of course they haven't, didn't you see - they use NT2003...
>> :)

>> Don Burnette

> Since NT2003 is soooo "realistic", maybe Nascar should make them
> drive with game controllers instead of steering wheels     :-))

LOL, I am sure that is what it is mainly programmed for...

Don Burnette

Larr

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Larr » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:11:16

I don't know, but I was bored to death today.  I fell asleep for the middle
2 hours of the race.

-Larry


George Jetso

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by George Jetso » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:22:13

   Did you catch the blurb from one of the announcers? "We have to run
restrictor plates here or the cars would be running 230." Here's a news
flash. The cars SHOULD be running 230. If the current crop of million
dollar spoon fed prima donnas don't want to drive Tally at 230 put
drivers in the cars who do.

   I think the late Dale Earnhardt spelled out my views on restrictor
plate racing best.

   "This is not racing".

   GJ

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Dave Henri

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Dave Henri » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:29:28


  While the drivers should have a say in thier own safety, I think you will
find the track owners, league officials and, most importantly, the Insurers
will have final say in SS speeds. Remember cars were LEAVING the speedway in
the old days.  Until the tracks can be made safer, the cars must be held
back.
          In that vein,  would just FLATTENING the two tracks fix
everything?  if the banking was single digit like Loudon or Indy, wouldn't
that remove any problem with the cars going tooooooo fast?
dave henrie

thebigtyme

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by thebigtyme » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 14:39:54

Yeah, but then ISC would have to spend a few mil of their BILLIONS of
dollars, and oh no, the Frances can't afford that! Then they can't get that
new Ferrari!

Tim Mise

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Tim Mise » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 14:39:54

That would be a great comment if you posted this before the race!

-Tim


Tim Mise

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Tim Mise » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 14:46:04

One of the best things I like about Nascar is the variety in the races from
track to track.  A couple road race courses, restictor plate super
speadways, short tracks, hi-banked, flat, Pocono, and the good ol cookie
cutter 1 1/2 mile tri-oval!  Watching the pack races 4 times a year is
perfect and is just as important as road courses and short tracks.  Now all
they need is a couple dirt tracks thrown into the mix and rain tires!

-Tim




> >    Did you catch the blurb from one of the announcers? "We have to run
> > restrictor plates here or the cars would be running 230." Here's a news
> > flash. The cars SHOULD be running 230. If the current crop of million
> > dollar spoon fed prima donnas don't want to drive Tally at 230 put
> > drivers in the cars who do.

> >    I think the late Dale Earnhardt spelled out my views on restrictor
> > plate racing best.

> >    "This is not racing".

> >    GJ

>   While the drivers should have a say in thier own safety, I think you
will
> find the track owners, league officials and, most importantly, the
Insurers
> will have final say in SS speeds. Remember cars were LEAVING the speedway
in
> the old days.  Until the tracks can be made safer, the cars must be held
> back.
>           In that vein,  would just FLATTENING the two tracks fix
> everything?  if the banking was single digit like Loudon or Indy, wouldn't
> that remove any problem with the cars going tooooooo fast?
> dave henrie

Milhous

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Milhous » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 15:11:38


I'm with him, but uncapping the cars and letting them run 230 is a bad idea.
Something needs to be done that allows them to hold the speeds down but also
allows a car on its own to run nearly as fast as a car in the draft.  Maybe
skinnier or harder tires?  Power reduction isn't the way, and I don't think
aero is either, because adding drag just makes the cars even better as a
draft.

Maybe a maximum rollout?  One that would allow, say, 205mph laps at the
typical near-valvefloat RPMs of an unrestricted engine?  Allow teams to run
shorter ratios if they want, but nothing taller...

Just ideas.

Milhouse

Tim Mise

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Tim Mise » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:24:51

I think the way to solve the "pack" problem is to first realize why the cars
run in packs.  The problem is that all of the cars can run Daytona and 'Dega
all out on the entire track because of the high banking.  Since they never
have to lift their foot off the pedal, it comes down to which cars are
faster, but with the restictor plates making all things being equal nobody
can pull away and the aero draft is just a byproduct of this.  Since the
cars are always going all out, handling tightness or looseness or tire wear
is not as important at these tracks so those element is out of the equation.

The key to breaking up the packs is to make it to where the driver has to
lift in the corners.  This could be done by removing the high banking from
the track (not likely to happen), letting the cars go faster by removing the
plates, (also not likely to happen), or going to a different tire with less
grip that would cause the drivers to have to slow down around the corners or
any major adjustment in the cars' handling characteristics that would force
the drivers to slow down in the corners.

Once you enter a little more driver skill into the equation, the better
drivers/teams can start to pull away from the not so good driver/teams.

-Tim

Just for the record, I'm all for keeping the way it is and having pack races
4 times a year.  Is the current "pack" racing really broken?




> >    Did you catch the blurb from one of the announcers? "We have to run
> > restrictor plates here or the cars would be running 230." Here's a news
> > flash. The cars SHOULD be running 230. If the current crop of million
> > dollar spoon fed prima donnas don't want to drive Tally at 230 put
> > drivers in the cars who do.

> >    I think the late Dale Earnhardt spelled out my views on restrictor
> > plate racing best.

> >    "This is not racing".

> I'm with him, but uncapping the cars and letting them run 230 is a bad
idea.
> Something needs to be done that allows them to hold the speeds down but
also
> allows a car on its own to run nearly as fast as a car in the draft.
Maybe
> skinnier or harder tires?  Power reduction isn't the way, and I don't
think
> aero is either, because adding drag just makes the cars even better as a
> draft.

> Maybe a maximum rollout?  One that would allow, say, 205mph laps at the
> typical near-valvefloat RPMs of an unrestricted engine?  Allow teams to
run
> shorter ratios if they want, but nothing taller...

> Just ideas.

> Milhouse

George Jetso

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by George Jetso » Wed, 09 Oct 2002 01:13:49

   I think Winston Cup restrictor plate racing is broken. For starters
the WC cars are currently running 3 to 5 mph slower than the Busch
series cars, and slower than even the ARCA cars. It doesn't seem to make
much sense to put your most experienced drivers in your slowest speedway
series but the current mentality of governing the top speeds seems to do
just that. IMO, they are just putting on a show rather than conducting a
race. Electronic speed govenors would be just as effective as the
current restrictor plates.

   The Tally track was designed specifically for 200+ speeds. After Bill
Elliot qualified at, what 212?, rather than going back to the shop and
working on thier cars to be competitive, the teams and drivers simply
whined to the officials to lower the speeds of the top cars and voila we
have restrictor plate racing where everyone can run with the lead pack.

   For those who actually saw Daytona and Tally before restrictor
plates, I can only hope someday someone will realize that watching a
pack of cars drive around at 183 on a track designed for 200+ is just
damn boring and I might actually watch an exciting speedway race again.

   Personally I prefer watching the Bush and ARCa series at Tally and
Daytona. When the WC series runs there, I usually catch a good nap.

   GJ

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John DiFoo

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by John DiFoo » Wed, 09 Oct 2002 02:14:44


>    I think Winston Cup restrictor plate racing is broken. For starters
> the WC cars are currently running 3 to 5 mph slower than the Busch
> series cars, and slower than even the ARCA cars. It doesn't seem to make
> much sense to put your most experienced drivers in your slowest speedway
> series but the current mentality of governing the top speeds seems to do
> just that. IMO, they are just putting on a show rather than conducting a
> race. Electronic speed govenors would be just as effective as the
> current restrictor plates.

>    The Tally track was designed specifically for 200+ speeds. After Bill
> Elliot qualified at, what 212?, rather than going back to the shop and
> working on thier cars to be competitive, the teams and drivers simply
> whined to the officials to lower the speeds of the top cars and voila we
> have restrictor plate racing where everyone can run with the lead pack.

>    For those who actually saw Daytona and Tally before restrictor
> plates, I can only hope someday someone will realize that watching a
> pack of cars drive around at 183 on a track designed for 200+ is just
> damn boring and I might actually watch an exciting speedway race again.

>    Personally I prefer watching the Bush and ARCa series at Tally and
> Daytona. When the WC series runs there, I usually catch a good nap.

>    GJ

    From the standpoint of a speed demon, I agree, but spectator and
driver safety has to be the main concern here.  They could raise the
height of the outside retaining walls, but the spectators would likely
raise a hue and cry about that.  If N2002 is an accurate simulation,
you will note that the cars can get a LOT of air when they end up
spinning or wrecking while running at 230+.  I'd love to see
unrestricted racing, but I seriously doubt that we will.  :-(

    John DiFool

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Haqsa

NASCAR NASCAR NASCAR: What were you thinking with those 13 Gallons Gas Tanks.!!! hehe

by Haqsa » Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:17:22

Seems to me it worked fine.  Sure the packs reformed, but the point is -
no yellows, and the only incident that occured was on the pace lap.



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