rec.autos.simulators

by **Wolfgang Prei** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>Do you left foot brake in your real car? Just curious...I just don't seem to
>have the feel/sensitivity/modulation in my left foot for "at the limit"
>braking!

I brake with my left foot in sims, but not in my real car. Same
problem as yours: lack of the right kind of
feel/sensitivity/modulation.

I think the difference has a lot to do with the wheel and pedals we're
using in sims. I'm not familiar with the more modern / expensive
units, but the pedals on my T2 are identical for gas and brake. They
both have the same travel and resistance - which gas and brake on my
real car definitely don't have. :)

The T2 brake pedal feels and operates more like a real life clutch
pedal, which is why (I guess) my left foot has no problems operating
it - it's used to gently depressing a pedal like this. It is not used
to modulating pressure with little travel, though, as needed for a
real brake pedal.

Likewise, I don't drive my real car with the left hand in 12 o'clock
position and the right hand hovering over the shifter, as I do in GPL.
The real car has extensive "force feedback effects" which make
steering with both hands necessary. Sims, esp. GPL, require delicate,
fast steering and fast shifting, but my wheel doesn't have a lot of
travel or force feedback.

--
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by **Scott Moor** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>>Do you left foot brake in your real car? Just curious...I just don't seem
to
>>have the feel/sensitivity/modulation in my left foot for "at the limit"
>>braking!

Yes, I do....I think it has something to do with learning to drive on a go
kart, which leaves no choice but to left-foot brake, and I just never kicked
the habit. On my T2, I added 2 extension-type springs (with a little
drilling and hacking) and took the original out of the throttle pedal. Now
the gas is easy to depress, and the brake significantly harder- works pretty
well, and they don't break nearly as often.

Scott Moore
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by **Jon Dento** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I learnt to drive in a Go kart too, but I find the pedal spacing in most
cars is terrible for left foot braking. The only cars I have found it to be
practicle in are a Mini and Subaru Impreza.

Jon.

by **Daniel Lichtenberg** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Back in the 1970s, my dad reportedly did brake left-foot _once_
because he had to keep his right foot on the gas 'cause otherwise the
engine would have died. But he *quickly* went back to right-foot
braking as the car behind him crashed into the back of his car because
he stepped onto the brakes so hard ;-))
Anyway, to stay on-topic: I can't imagine not to left-foot brake in
GPL or any other racing game, it's just a lot faster and more precise
than right-foot braking. But I couldn't imagine to use it in real
life.

Daniel

PS: great thread :)

--
Daniel Lichtenberger, Vienna/Austria

by **Eldre** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I've tried it before (in games), and I could NOT get the hang of it... I don't
know how much practice it would take, but I wasn't willing to work on it THAT
badly. :)

Eldred>Subject: Re: GPL - Both Feet?

>Date: 1/7/99 12:03 PM Eastern Standard Time

>>Do you left foot brake in your real car? Just curious...I just don't seem to
>>have the feel/sensitivity/modulation in my left foot for "at the limit"
>>braking!

>Back in the 1970s, my dad reportedly did brake left-foot _once_
>because he had to keep his right foot on the gas 'cause otherwise the
>engine would have died. But he *quickly* went back to right-foot
>braking as the car behind him crashed into the back of his car because
>he stepped onto the brakes so hard ;-))
>Anyway, to stay on-topic: I can't imagine not to left-foot brake in
>GPL or any other racing game, it's just a lot faster and more precise
>than right-foot braking. But I couldn't imagine to use it in real
>life.

>Daniel

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by **Uwe Schuerka** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>Likewise, I don't drive my real car with the left hand in 12 o'clock
>position and the right hand hovering over the shifter, as I do in GPL.
>The real car has extensive "force feedback effects" which make

Do you mind if I ask about the condition of your left shoulder? ;-)
This is exactly the position I drive in, and my left shoulder keeps
giving me trouble every now and then. My left hand is more in a
nine o'clock position though.

I don't do left foot braking in real life either, but it works great
with the T2 and even saved me and my car once when I went into a spin
coming off the Autobahn when I instinctively used left foot braking in
order to correct the slide. Only afterwards when the adrenaline wore
off I realized like "hey, you just used left foot braking in a real
car". Nothing dramatic though, just a slippery road even at 25 mph or
so ;-)

Cheers,

Uwe

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by **Graeme Nas** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Hehe, Being 17, I don't have a real car yet. I start driving lessons
next month though :-)

Cheers!
--
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

ICQ# 11257824

by **Jack** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

You're kidding, right?

If not, I guess you're so fast because no where in the back of your mind
resides any recollection of ever hitting anything at speed!

by **Graeme Nas** » Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:00:00

'fraid not. I guess I'm the r.a.s baby :-)

I barrel-rolled a kart once, but otherwise I suppose you're pretty much
right!

As a general point, I'd be happy to write a GPL driving guide if enough
people are interested. And I mean driving guide - no setup stuff or
anything like that, since I'm still figuring it all out myself!

Cheers!
--
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

ICQ# 11257824

by **Ferdinand Trauttmansdor** » Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>Ferdinand writes:
>>One of the best illustrations of left foot braking I can remember ever
>>seeing on television was during (believe it or not) a NASCAR race! ...
>> The "foot-cam" images ...
>I've seen the 'foot-cam' even on short tracks - Martinsville and Bristol. It's
>VERY interesting to watch... <g>

>Eldred

I don't watch very many NASCAR races, but the camera work always
impresses me. I remember another camera angle shot from UNDER a car
looking at the right front tire. It was AMAZING to see how far the
tire stretches under cornering loads. I was astounded that, after all
the work that goes into developing a proper suspension setup, the
contact patch of the tire still wanders from side to side by several
inches when it's subjected to side loads. Awesome.

-Ferdinand-

by **Ferdinand Trauttmansdor** » Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>>>Do you left foot brake in your real car? Just curious...I just don't
>>>seem to have the feel/sensitivity/modulation in my left foot for
>>>"at the limit" braking!
>Yes, I do....I think it has something to do with learning to drive on a go
>kart, which leaves no choice but to left-foot brake, and I just never kicked
>the habit. ...

Part of the problem is the way that pedals are set in typical road
cars. By design the throttle and brake pedals are either set far
apart, or the brake pedal is much higher than the throttle, in order
to prevent idiots from confusing the two pedals. Otherwise you'll get
people swearing that they're car is possessed by evil spirits. While
they had both feet firmly planted on the brake pedal, the car
mysteriously started its own engine, dropped into gear, went to wide
open throttle (overpowering the brakes in the process), mowed down
several pedestrians on the sidewalk, crashed through the front window
of the supermarket, continued right through the back wall of the
supermarket, and launched straight off the pier into the nearest
ocean. It's officially called 'unintended acceleration'.

In a go-kart or race car setup (or simulator pedals), the brake pedal
can be reached without lifting your heel off the floor. Pressure is
applied to the brake pedal and can be finely modulated by rotating
your foot at the ankle using your calf muscle. But in the average
car, you have to lift your foot right off the floor to reach the brake
pedal. Now you're using your whole leg to apply pressure with your
thigh muscles. Without a lot of practice, it's much more difficult to
get the same degree of control.

-Ferdinand-

by **Gadget?** » Sun, 24 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Schuerkamp) dribbled the following:

WOW!!! That happened to me too!! I just coulnt believe my left foot
comming to the rescue though all that panic and did it corretly too. I
will never doubt my left foot again. :)

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