rec.autos.simulators

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

David Gar

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by David Gar » Thu, 06 Feb 1997 04:00:00



> >All the other sims run fine on anything higher that a p100 and GP2 runs
> >like
> >shit in SVGA. Either way we're in a day and age of SVGA. If you dont
> >mind the way VGA
> >looks then go out and get yourself a Playstation. Their a hell of a lot
> >cheaper!

> >-DG-

> Sorry David, not a single driving sim runs fine in SVGA on a P200.
> Screamer comes close, but this is hardly a sim. Can you actually NAME
> a game that runs very smooth in SVGA with full graphics on "anything
> higher than a P100"?

Sure! ICR2, Nascar1 and N2 run very fluid with ALL graphics on!

> Your remark about the PlayStation shows your ignorance. I guess you've
> never seen a modern PlayStation game. The resolution, graphics (and
> also framerate) of Destruction Derby 2 or Tekken 2 for example are far
> better than what can be achieved with the fastest SVGA card on a PC.

> Filip Humble


I OWN a play station. All of its games that I've played, including DD
and T2 are "hollow"
compared to most PC based games. What the hell is a SVGA card anyway?
You mean a video card?
What does that have to do with SVGA?

-DG-

TOlson94

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by TOlson94 » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00

I think that is what happened. I had to re-load the race because the
electrics failed and I was stuck in first gear. A back marker hit me and
slammed me into the wall. I couldn't go anywhere because I couldn't put
the car in reverse. It was annoying.

Adams

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Adams » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00

: Re: GP2

: > ... I don't like it that a lot of events in a race are
: >"pre-programmed" (You can go to a certain race a couple of times, and more
: >than likely the same car will have the same failure or accident on the
: >same lap that it had the previous races. I've gone to Canada a couple of
: >times, and I always got an electrical failure on lap 22.)

: This isn't true.  I compete in the Little Formula Racing Series
: (LFRS) and always run two to three practice races prior to running
: my actual race.  Each race on the same track has been VERY different -
: who wins the race, who wins pole, who has mechanical failure, etc.

: It IS determined, however, at the start of a particular GAME which
: cars will have mechanical failure.  So, for example, if you save
: a game after qualifying but prior to starting the actual race,
: then run the race and have an engine failure, if you restart
: the game from that save, you will still have engine failure on
: the same lap.  However, if you were to select "race again on the
: same circuit", restarting the entire event, it is highly unlikely
: that a car would experience the same failure.

: I suspect this is what you experienced (restarting a race from a save
: rather than restarting the entire event).  If not, it must have been
: a VERY rare coincidence.

: --
: ************************************************************************
: David A. Ewing                Interleaf - Boulder Lab

: ************************************************************************

Matthew Lewi

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Matthew Lewi » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00


> > Your remark about the PlayStation shows your ignorance. I guess you've
> > never seen a modern PlayStation game. The resolution, graphics (and
> > also framerate) of Destruction Derby 2 or Tekken 2 for example are far
> > better than what can be achieved with the fastest SVGA card on a PC.
> > Filip Humble

> I OWN a play station. All of its games that I've played, including DD
> and T2 are "hollow"
> compared to most PC based games. What the hell is a SVGA card anyway?
> You mean a video card?
> What does that have to do with SVGA?
> > -DG-

A television operates at a very low resolution, similar to VGA graphics
on a PC.  PC's can run at much higher resolutions in SVGA and offer much
crisper pictures.  

The playstation uses dedicated 3D hardware graphics acceleration.  This
works well, but not nearly as well as 3D video cards can run on a PC.
There is no comparison.

I don't want to rekindle the PC/console debate (please...NO!!).  I just
am trying to clear up the information of television resolution in
comparison to PC resolution.  PC graphics can be much sharper (read:
higher resolution) and much faster (framerates) than is possible on the
playstation when using 3D accelerated video hardware.  This is simply
objective information.
--
Matt Lewis

Jo Hels

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Jo Hels » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00


..... If thats the

David,

you have all the right in the world NOT to like GP2. But stop lying: the game
can be played fluently in VGA with ALL details on (maybe some mirror textures
off, but that's something for the future) on a P100. In SVGA, it can be played
fluently on a level of detail that other sims call "maximum detail". Explain to
me how you can blame Crammond for putting in some extras to lengthen the sim's
life? On "the fastest hardware", you can get >20fps in SVGA with all but some
minor textures enabled. Don't whine about sky texture, because that's obviously
something for the future as well.

You know, your posts would be taken much more seriously if you just tried *a
little* to let reason prevail.

JH
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When everything else failed, we can still become im-
mortal by making an enormous blunder....

                             John Kenneth Galbraith
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Jo Hels

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Jo Hels » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00


.... and I don't like it that a lot of events in a race are

As with Gp1, every start of a race is unique. Only when you start several races
from the same saved game (of the START), you will get exactly the same events.

JH
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When everything else failed, we can still become im-
mortal by making an enormous blunder....

                             John Kenneth Galbraith
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Jo Hels

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Jo Hels » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00


This is not completely true. Check it: every indivual START OF A RACE is unique.
In other words: if you just restart from a game saved at the end of qualifying
or pre-race practice, you will have unique races.

JH
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When everything else failed, we can still become im-
mortal by making an enormous blunder....

                             John Kenneth Galbraith
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

TOlson94

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by TOlson94 » Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:00:00

I think that Gp2 has the best VGA mode I have seen. It runs smoothly with
almost maximum details at several tracks, but it does get very slow at
places like Hungary and Monaca even with a lot of detail turned off. I
think it should get fun in about half a year to a year, though, when there
are faster computers and more people can afford P200's.

David Gar

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by David Gar » Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:00:00



> > > Your remark about the PlayStation shows your ignorance. I guess you've
> > > never seen a modern PlayStation game. The resolution, graphics (and
> > > also framerate) of Destruction Derby 2 or Tekken 2 for example are far
> > > better than what can be achieved with the fastest SVGA card on a PC.
> > > Filip Humble

> > I OWN a play station. All of its games that I've played, including DD
> > and T2 are "hollow"
> > compared to most PC based games. What the hell is a SVGA card anyway?
> > You mean a video card?
> > What does that have to do with SVGA?
> > > -DG-

> A television operates at a very low resolution, similar to VGA graphics
> on a PC.  PC's can run at much higher resolutions in SVGA and offer much
> crisper pictures.

> The playstation uses dedicated 3D hardware graphics acceleration.  This
> works well, but not nearly as well as 3D video cards can run on a PC.
> There is no comparison.

> I don't want to rekindle the PC/console debate (please...NO!!).  I just
> am trying to clear up the information of television resolution in
> comparison to PC resolution.  PC graphics can be much sharper (read:
> higher resolution) and much faster (framerates) than is possible on the
> playstation when using 3D accelerated video hardware.  This is simply
> objective information.
> --
> Matt Lewis


Your absolutly right Matt I have a PSC06 converter that converts my
computer's frequency to that of my 60"
big screen. I convert it and run N2 and ICR2 in SVGA mode but its still
not nearly as clear as a computer monitor or "true" SVGA even though
when i convert it and run N2 or ICR2 in VGA mode it makes a huge
difference in graphic quality. If you would like to see my setup on the
bigscreen just email me and request it. I have built a monocoupe sim and
race N2 and ICR2 on it. My wife doesnt like it too much because it takes
up most of the livin room but I make sure its put up before she gets
home!(grin)

-David Gary-

Filip Humb

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Filip Humb » Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:00:00


>Sure! ICR2, Nascar1 and N2 run very fluid with ALL graphics on!

I hope you are ironic, but I'm afraid you're not. I have tried N1
(special Matrox accelared version) and N2 on my 200, don't tell me
they run fluid with all graphics on! Although I noticed before that
some of you are easily satisfied when it comes to framerate: I've read
posts here on this newsgroup were one calls 15 fps (fif***!) playable
and 20 fps very smooth. Well I don't. A smooth framerate is 25 fps,
not less!

You're right about that, but if you ever compared DD2 on the PC and
the PlayStation, you can't deny that the PlayStation version looks
much better (lightsourcing on the cars for example).
Now I never said that the TV has a higher resolution than a monitor.
My point was that in order to play games on a PC with the same sense
of speed (framerate) as on a PlayStation, you'll have to play it in
VGA, not SVGA, and thereby the resolution will be less than on a TV.

Filip Humble

ccorpor

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by ccorpor » Sat, 08 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Who owns a P200

> You're right about that, but if you ever compared DD2 on the PC and
> the PlayStation, you can't deny that the PlayStation version looks
> much better (lightsourcing on the cars for example).
> Now I never said that the TV has a higher resolution than a monitor.
> My point was that in order to play games on a PC with the same sense
> of speed (framerate) as on a PlayStation, you'll have to play it in
> VGA, not SVGA, and thereby the resolution will be less than on a TV.

> Filip Humble


REPLY:

No what you need to do next is buy a verite based video card. You already have
a bundle in your P200, go out and do yourself a favor and get the verite
board. Thank me later. It will be more like 30+ with all features on including
filtering.

Q.B.M.

Talo

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Talo » Sun, 09 Feb 1997 04:00:00

This is a response to an older post.
The older post first:


An interesting perspective, considering both Next Generation and PC
Gamer are run by the same company, Imagine Publishing. "Also some of
these mags are owned by game companies." Imagine Publishing is hardly
owned by a game company. It's owned by its founder, Chris Anderson, who
before founding Imagine here in the US created Future Publishing in the
UK.

And since I sit right across the aisle from Next Generation, and I do a
lot of *** PC reviews for them, I can assure you, there is no
Great ***/Advertiser Influence, despite the many strange postings
on these newsgroups.

Jason Bates
PC Gamer

Dan Benne

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Dan Benne » Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:00:00

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:07:28 +0000, Dave Bowers


>GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in
>VGA with all but sky detail on!
>I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and
>were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they
>had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and
>IPX I'd have given it 95%!!

Actually, we reviewed the final, boxed version of GP2. In fact, we
specifically listed as one of the game's "Lows" that it doesn't
include network support for multi-player racing.

We don't base our reviews on features that the game's publisher says
the game will have when it's released in retail channels. Too many
*** magazines (including PC Gamer, in earlier days) have been
burned by that.

Dan Bennett
Editor, PC Gamer

Dan Benne

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Dan Benne » Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:00:00

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:07:28 +0000, Dave Bowers


>GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in
>VGA with all but sky detail on!
>I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and
>were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they
>had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and
>IPX I'd have given it 95%!!

Actually, we reviewed the final, boxed version of GP2. In fact, we
specifically listed as one of the game's "Lows" that it doesn't
include network support for multi-player racing.

Dan Bennett
Editor, PC Gamer

Mr Bil

OverRated Sim"s and Games.

by Mr Bil » Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:00:00

Thank you for replying to or concerns Mr Bennett.
Your response is much more "informative" than your employee Jason Bates "As
a matter of fact" "Mr bigshot" post. No offence meant Mr Bates but a person
in your position should expect some critisism and reply properly.
That said.. Why and who gave GP2 such a Overrated "IMO" rating.
95%, thats close to perfection. No computer made can run that thing
properly. Not to
mention all the bugs and lousy modem problems.
Then there is the issue of Microprose leaving it to die. "No updates" ever.
Perhaps you would consider bringing up the issue in your mag? You could
call it
"Microprose's lousy game and customer support".  Microprose sold well over
half a
million copies of that game and I bet most of those people are not real
happy with it.
You may also want to reply about the issue of so much advertising in your
mag.

Thank you for yor time.

Mr Bill.
A fake name and email Im a usin, cause viruses n bombs Im sick of gettin.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting perspective, considering both Next Generation and PC
Gamer are run by the same company, Imagine Publishing. "Also some of
these mags are owned by game companies." Imagine Publishing is hardly
owned by a game company. It's owned by its founder, Chris Anderson, who
before founding Imagine here in the US created Future Publishing in the
UK.

And since I sit right across the aisle from Next Generation, and I do a
lot of *** PC reviews for them, I can assure you, there is no
Great ***/Advertiser Influence, despite the many strange postings
on these newsgroups.

Jason Bates
PC Gamer
----------------------------------------------------


> On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:07:28 +0000, Dave Bowers

> >GP2 works fine with my P90. I dont drive in SVGA but I can get 23fps in
> >VGA with all but sky detail on!
> >I reckon PC Gamer over rated it because they had a prerelease copy, and
> >were told it would feature weather and IPX support. Because of this they
> >had to kind of estimate a score, and to be honest, if it had weather and
> >IPX I'd have given it 95%!!

> Actually, we reviewed the final, boxed version of GP2. In fact, we
> specifically listed as one of the game's "Lows" that it doesn't
> include network support for multi-player racing.

  We don't base our reviews on features that the game's publisher says
  the game will have when it's released in retail channels. Too many
  *** magazines (including PC Gamer, in earlier days) have been  
  burned by that.

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