rec.autos.simulators

by **Jeroe** » Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Is it me (am I that good!) or is TOCA 2 far too easy? The first time I
played the game (the demo), I found it very hard. I flew all over the track.
But because everyone said it's one of the best racing games, I kept on
trying. And after a few laps I had big fun. Cars driving fast close together
on a small track: great! So I bought the game. The first evening I tried the
Normal setting championship. Hm... that's going too easy... Well,Thruxton is
an easy track, I guess. Started the championship again in Expert mode. Ah,
that's better! I can't qualify in front! And the race was quit nice too.
Although... those cars are going much faster than I am on those straight
parts of the track. Aha! Setup! Stopped after an hour of playing.
The next evening I went to the setup, put my 6th gear ratio completely to
the right, and balanced the others. Downforce to zero. Yo, now I'm flying.
(BTW My Nissan is still driving in the red, but I can't change the gear
setup any further. Is 150 mph the maximum?) Okay, expert mode again. Oops,
screwed up my qualifying round: 15th. Now let's race. 5 laps. Very exciting!
For one round. In the middle of round 2 was number 1. 15 points! Now the
feature race. Qualified 1st! 10 laps. Won the race. Only had trouble with
one car after my pitstop. Well, Thruxton is easy!
Silverstone! And it rains! This is going to be hard! Same setup (!), but wet
tires of course. Oops, screwed up my qualifying round: 12th. Hm, won the
race... Feature race! Cloudy, no rain. Qualified 1st. Bad start. But 1st
again after the first big corner. Wasn't bothered by anyone anymore. Even
after my pitstop (lap 7) I was 1st! Only has some trouble with a car I
lapped. Made a mistake: slipped into the sand. Ah, who cares. Drove the last
2 laps very carefully, just like a sunday drive with the family. No problem.

Played the game for 2 and and a half hours now. Won all 4 races in expert
mode so far. Can someone tell me if this is it? This is no challenge! Colin
McRae Rally was a challenge! I had the drive a lot before I won in expert
mode there. And every stage took my uttermost concentration. There's got to
be something wrong here! Okay, I know: I don't have to qualify. I can start
every race as number 16. But that's not the way it should be done. First I
was afraid the 15 points limit would irritate me and keep me from going on.
Well, I'm not afraid anymore... But I'm not really happy too.

Don't get me wrong: I like the game. I really like the car handling. But
using the ridicilous setup I do and winning everything (even with spinning
of the track!) is not what I expected...

What are your experiences? Did I cry too soon? Will it get better later? Did
I do something wrong?

Sigh...

Jeroen van Engelenhoven

by **Mark C Dod** » Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:00:00

You can win at expert mode at every track with no downforce. The AI cars are no
challenge at all to any semi experienced games player.

They are supposed to be bringing out a patch to increase the AI drivers speed
and aggro. If they do this then the game will be fantastic fun, despite what I
regard as crappy in car graphics. (Although I have hear there are some setting I
may be able to tweak to improve the rear vision mirror. Playing around with the
configration file in TOCA 1 greatly improved the voodoo 1 graphics.)

Do you get the feeling it was a ruch job to cash in on the start of the BTCC
season?

> Is it me (am I that good!) or is TOCA 2 far too easy? The first time I
> played the game (the demo), I found it very hard. I flew all over the track.
> But because everyone said it's one of the best racing games, I kept on
> trying. And after a few laps I had big fun. Cars driving fast close together
> on a small track: great! So I bought the game. The first evening I tried the
> Normal setting championship. Hm... that's going too easy... Well,Thruxton is
> an easy track, I guess. Started the championship again in Expert mode. Ah,
> that's better! I can't qualify in front! And the race was quit nice too.
> Although... those cars are going much faster than I am on those straight
> parts of the track. Aha! Setup! Stopped after an hour of playing.
> The next evening I went to the setup, put my 6th gear ratio completely to
> the right, and balanced the others. Downforce to zero. Yo, now I'm flying.
> (BTW My Nissan is still driving in the red, but I can't change the gear
> setup any further. Is 150 mph the maximum?) Okay, expert mode again. Oops,
> screwed up my qualifying round: 15th. Now let's race. 5 laps. Very exciting!
> For one round. In the middle of round 2 was number 1. 15 points! Now the
> feature race. Qualified 1st! 10 laps. Won the race. Only had trouble with
> one car after my pitstop. Well, Thruxton is easy!
> Silverstone! And it rains! This is going to be hard! Same setup (!), but wet
> tires of course. Oops, screwed up my qualifying round: 12th. Hm, won the
> race... Feature race! Cloudy, no rain. Qualified 1st. Bad start. But 1st
> again after the first big corner. Wasn't bothered by anyone anymore. Even
> after my pitstop (lap 7) I was 1st! Only has some trouble with a car I
> lapped. Made a mistake: slipped into the sand. Ah, who cares. Drove the last
> 2 laps very carefully, just like a sunday drive with the family. No problem.

> Played the game for 2 and and a half hours now. Won all 4 races in expert
> mode so far. Can someone tell me if this is it? This is no challenge! Colin
> McRae Rally was a challenge! I had the drive a lot before I won in expert
> mode there. And every stage took my uttermost concentration. There's got to
> be something wrong here! Okay, I know: I don't have to qualify. I can start
> every race as number 16. But that's not the way it should be done. First I
> was afraid the 15 points limit would irritate me and keep me from going on.
> Well, I'm not afraid anymore... But I'm not really happy too.

> Don't get me wrong: I like the game. I really like the car handling. But
> using the ridicilous setup I do and winning everything (even with spinning
> of the track!) is not what I expected...

> What are your experiences? Did I cry too soon? Will it get better later? Did
> I do something wrong?

> Sigh...

> Jeroen van Engelenhoven

by **Jeroe** » Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I can hardly wait!!!

Don't know... How does the PC version compare to the PSX version? Is that
one just as easy? In that case it isn't a rush job: that one was released
long ago. I think I'm going to find out which setup will me make me (almost)
equal to the AI drivers (yeah, sounds weird, huh?!). I say 'almost', because
in the end I want to win the race of course :-) but not that easy: I want to
fight for victory until the finish line.

Jeroen

by **Stuart Nicholso** » Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Do you find it too easy in Expert mode? I've only played the Championship in
Expert for a short while but I find it pretty challenging and the agression
from other drivers is quite strong. Whilst in real life there is a fair
amount of agression in the races it isn't exactly out and out war.

by **ilmor** » Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Compared to the SCGT demo the toca 2 ai are like shumacher on roids. I hope
they fix up the aggression before the final release. Poor ai could really
kill that game.

-ilmore

by **Richard G Cleg** » Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:00:00

: Compared to the SCGT demo the toca 2 ai are like shumacher on roids. I hope
: they fix up the aggression before the final release. Poor ai could really
: kill that game.

(Grin) You've clearly never seen a touring car race have you? If a
BTCC driver finishes the race with both wing-mirrors, he hasn't tried
hard enough. Rubbing bumpers is a pretty much accepted part of the
British Touring Car scene. OK, you don't do anything too blatant, but
the AI in TOCA seems about right. GT racing is a completely different
kettle of fish and, while I haven't played SCGT, I would imagine that
a much less "muscular" AI would be right.

The funny thing about the AI in TOCA is that they really seem to have
it right for the support races too - the Ford Fiestas weave all over the
place, go three into a corner and then spin out - just like in real
life. The FFord's look pretty "right" from the few Formula Ford races
I've seen.

--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

by **Jeroe** » Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Third evening with TOCA 2, third round in the expert championship,
Donington. Lost the sprint, won the feature race easily. Took me two times
though, because I accidently asked for slicks instead of wet tires!!! That
cpst me my nr. 1 spot... Why can't you change your choices anymore???
Anyway, went on to round 7 & 8: Brands Hatch. Nice little track! Did not
practice: used the qualifying round to see what track is was. Qualified 16th
:-). But won the race :-) and :-( ... Lucky for me, because the sudden rain
was too much for me in the feature race: spinned of the track about 12
times... Also thanks to an annoying 'trigger in the road': after the first
corner I almost always get a kick to my rear from no one... Very annoying...
You have to steer VERY carefully there or you will end up turned around.

Again, I still like the game! I hate the 15 point limit (after winning the
sprint the tension left the event: you're on to the next round anyway!). But
the sprint at Brands was great: I took the number 1 position in the very
last corner! Now that's more like it! Great tension!

On to Donington for the second time this season...

Jeroen

by **Peter Lock** » Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>Great to know it's real. I wonder if it's always been like that.

I don't think there have been any changes beyond the addition of track
beyond the rumble strip on the LHS.

In those days, tyre technology limited the grip and I doubt they were
achieving the speeds of today. Also, single seaters and special track racers
are *very* light and with more adjustability - so less suspension bottoming
and (hopefully) no "wind-up".

Peter

PS: I was taking the corner at ~110 and going through the dip at ~130. I
ploughed a deep furrow ~25m long in the litter and hit the tyre wall enough
to do considerable body damage. The marshals reckoned I hit the run off area
doing ~90mph sideways. It sure is cheaper getting it wrong in TOCA 2 :-)

by **Stuart Nicholso** » Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:00:00

It is strange that kick from no one at Brands Hatch after the first corner
in the dip. Also I can't see the point of the 15 points per race day to go
on. I doubt many of the real teams would bother if it happened in real life.
You should be able to race the whole season and evaluate your results at the
end and try again from scratch. This way makes it too much of a game instead
of a sim.

by **ilmor** » Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Oh I think youve misunderstood me. Ive seen many touring car races and know
very well how rough the british form of the sport is. I was actually
sticking up for the toca 2 ai, I think its great. Its rare that I actually
yell swear words at the ai in a game but toca 2 does that for me. You should
try the SCGT demo, I know that these guys want to conserve fuel and not
damage the car because of the long race distances but do they have to be
soooo slow???? Honestly with a bit of practice you can overlap 2nd place on
the highest difficultie!

-ilmore

by **Mark C Dod** » Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:00:00

TOCA 1 AI used to punt you off at random. However, extra aggression means locked
up brakes as they try to steal the inside line by outbraking you. Just doesn't
happen in any current sim. I would love to see, as in real racing, a late
breaking move result in a wide exit from the corner giving you a chance to
snatch back the position. Happend against humans and this is why it is currently
more fun to race other people than the copmputer AI.

> Do you find it too easy in Expert mode? I've only played the Championship in
> Expert for a short while but I find it pretty challenging and the agression
> from other drivers is quite strong. Whilst in real life there is a fair
> amount of agression in the races it isn't exactly out and out war.

> > >They are supposed to be bringing out a patch to increase the AI drivers
> > speed
> > >and aggro.

> > I can hardly wait!!!

> > >Do you get the feeling it was a ruch job to cash in on the start of the
> > BTCC
> > >season?

> > Don't know... How does the PC version compare to the PSX version? Is that
> > one just as easy? In that case it isn't a rush job: that one was released
> > long ago. I think I'm going to find out which setup will me make me
> (almost)
> > equal to the AI drivers (yeah, sounds weird, huh?!). I say 'almost',
> because
> > in the end I want to win the race of course :-) but not that easy: I want
> to
> > fight for victory until the finish line.

> > Jeroen

by **Steve Ferguso** » Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:00:00

: TOCA 1 AI used to punt you off at random. However, extra aggression means locked
: up brakes as they try to steal the inside line by outbraking you. Just doesn't
: happen in any current sim. I would love to see, as in real racing, a late
: breaking move result in a wide exit from the corner giving you a chance to
: snatch back the position. Happend against humans and this is why it is currently
: more fun to race other people than the copmputer AI.

I could swear this situation has happened several times in GP2. I don't
know if it agression or just AI brain fade, but I've had AI cars outbrake
themselves and go wide.

S.

by **ymenar** » Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Well when this happens... it means that the AI is very well done. It's
normally one of the base that people will judge the AI for. Aggression but
intelligent aggression. If they are too crazy and unrealistic (punt each
2turns), it's bad. But in Gp2, Toca 1 or GPLegends, you can clearly see the
controlled aggression by different drivers.

Another easy point to look at is if a AI sometimes hits the apex too early
or too late. I know many titles that never have such a thing (<cough>
Ubisoft).

Still, the GPL AI isn't perfect. Look at it around Monaco and you will see
that it's very weird. Not in-car, but with a TV camera. It will use some
out-of-this-world physics sometimes, strafing left and right for no reason.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

rec.autos.simulators

TOCA 2 too easy...?

TOCA 2 too easy...?

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