rec.autos.simulators

> > > <Long post about VGA being faster than SVGA snipped>

> > > GRAPHICS RATE and TRACTION and GEARING are all connected.

> > Same as ever: If you get a higher frame rate, a good driver will be
able
> > to drive the car faster. Period.

> > On a high end machine, which can run SVGA at a constant 30 fps, there
> > should be no difference between VGA and SVGA. If SVGA yields 20 fps and
> > VGA yields 30fps, VGA will probably be faster due to the higher frame
> > rate.

> > The gearing change you mentioned was either a secondary effect of
> > carrying higher speeds, or you should have been using that gear all
> > along.

> > ---Jim Sokoloff

> Jim:

> I really am alittle shocked by your candid answer.  For Years Papyrus
> has been trying to convince us that all DRIVING SYSTEMS were created
> equal.  Now we you have said what we have all know.  The NASCAR
> software doesnt run equally on all systems..

> Don Wilshe, IVGA

>    Maybe they (Whoever actually runs the multiplayer Nascar system)
>should introduce a class-system based on computer performance.  They
>could break it down into 486's, "artificial" Pentiums, Pentium MMX's,
>etc.

>You couldnt of said it better.  Better HARDWARE is FASTER TIMES.  But
>its
>still the softwares responsibility to even the field.  Let me explain.
>When
>your software starts up its synchronizes the GRAPHICS RATE and the
>CONTROL
>DEVICE you have to make the FRAME RATES the same and you cant give some
>people advanatages.  It is the responsibility of PAPYRUS to slow down
>the FASTER machines and FRAME RATES to be the same for all of us.
>Whether
>as advertised on your SOFTWARE BOXES you have a 486-66 or a Pentium
>300..

>Don Wilshe

>Nice Try....  

> > Tony:

> > You couldnt of said it better.  Better HARDWARE is FASTER TIMES.  But
> > its
> > still the softwares responsibility to even the field.  Let me explain.
> > When
> > your software starts up its synchronizes the GRAPHICS RATE and the
> > CONTROL
> > DEVICE you have to make the FRAME RATES the same and you cant give some
> > people advanatages.  It is the responsibility of PAPYRUS to slow down
> > the FASTER machines and FRAME RATES to be the same for all of us.
> > Whether
> > as advertised on your SOFTWARE BOXES you have a 486-66 or a Pentium
> > 300..

> > Don Wilshe

> By limiting the frame-rate in software to a maximum of 30fps Papy has in
> fact capped the maximum available performance.  You can race on a 486 if
> you want to in VGA but I will stick with my P166MMX/Rendition system
> which runs 30fps in all but heavy traffic.  The minute advantages
> provided by the faster systems are only meaningful for qualifying times
> and so called lap records.  All that goes out the window when the real
> racing begins.  Since the P166MMX is effectively the entry level system
> today and a Rendition card is available for $150 from two different
> companies it is my opinion that a competitive system is available to
> everyone.  I don't care about the 486 owners anymore and if Papyrus
> doesn't then that is fine with me.

> I think this discussion would be more productive if everyone gave
> insight on what they believe is the best hardware for racing so others
> don't go wasting their hard earned money.  I will start the ball
> rolling.

> I use P166MMX on Supermicro P5MMA TX based motherboard.  This board only
> supports a maximum 75mhz system bus which I use to overclock the
> processor to 187mhz.  I feel the ultimate situation would be a P233MMX
> on a 83mhz system bus and 250mhz processor speed.  I'm not even sure
> that the P233MMX will work at that speed, input would be appreciated.
> Since the faster system bus improves memory performance and video
> performance this is IMO the best way to go.  PPro systems that I have
> seen have lousy DMA performance and few options for bus overclocking.
> Though I haven't tested any P2 systems I assume they have the same DMA
> problems because they currently use the same PPro
> chipset(Natoma/440FX).  I'm sure you could add much in regards to
> PPro/P2 performance here Don.  I use SDRAM mainly because of its ability
> to run the higher system bus speeds reliably.

> As far as video goes a Rendition based card is a given.  The Canopus
> Total3D and the new Miro card both use a slightly overclocked version of
> the Verite chip so they should give a marginally better performance.  I
> have read that the Sierra card is now using the same chip, but I haven't
> been able to verify this.  A new Rendition card should be available
> within the next 2 months or so which may greatly improve the graphics
> potential.  It is not known at this time how this new chipset will
> effect existing software so this may or may not be an improvement for
> Nascar2.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that.

> I use a Soundblaster AWE64 which I replaced an old AWE32 with.  I was
> pleasantly surprised to find it all but eliminated the stutter which I
> sometimes got when driving by a pit full of rumbling cars.  Even though
> the card is plug and play it was easy to disable the game port so I
> could use a Thrustmaster ACM gamecard.

> Others may disagree but I find the controller input is more precise and
> stable with the ACM gamecard.  I try to adjust the card so the max
> calibration numbers are in the 200-250 range.  I believe that this makes
> the car more stable.

> My wheel setup is a Thrustmaster GP1 with T2 pedals which are modified
> so that the two pedals work on separate axis on joystick 2.  I feel that
> this helps to keep me from overshooting turns while driving two footed.
> It takes some getting used to but it may keep you from running people
> over on the short tracks.  Unfortunately N1/N2 doesn't properly model
> brake/throttle input or this could be a tremendous advantage.  I should
> have probably kept it to myself but what the hell.

> I don't think a SCSI subsystem would make a difference because you don't
> really access any drives during gameplay.  I would recommend more memory
> before trying SCSI, at least the menus run faster with 64meg.  The only
> other thing I would recommend is that you eliminate anything running in
> the background that you can when running under windows.  I also
> recommend running in dos when practicing to eliminate overhead from
> windows.

> We can now entertain offerings from the peanut gallery.

> Dana Bailes

> >    Maybe they (Whoever actually runs the multiplayer Nascar system)
> >should introduce a class-system based on computer performance.  They
> >could break it down into 486's, "artificial" Pentiums, Pentium MMX's,
> >etc.

> My thoughts exactly! Set up leagues by CPU speed,.....evryone will
> have a more level playing field, not totally level but close enough.
> You can still take an Overdrive/Enhanced  486 x100+ and run with the
> low end Pentiums, I do it!

> As I remember,.....there was a flight/war sim online for awhile in
> beta test called Air Warrior. When they went into league format, they
> set up an evaluation prog that would tell them what you were running,
> and if it was fast enough for their sim. I don't think that would be
> too much of a hassle for Papyrus. It would keep the fast "frameraters"
> from totally dominating a one league system as they do now on Hawaii.
> And it would cut down on the complaints,....are ya listening Papy?? Ya
> can't say it's gonna cost ya money, cause what brings more returns, a
> full league with happy comoetitors that want to STAY; or a one leauge
> system with a large turnover ratio? Do the math Papyrus!

> (soap box mode off,...flame retardent gear on)

> >    Maybe they (Whoever actually runs the multiplayer Nascar system)
> >should introduce a class-system based on computer performance.  They
> >could break it down into 486's, "artificial" Pentiums, Pentium MMX's,
> >etc.

> My thoughts exactly! Set up leagues by CPU speed,.....evryone will
> have a more level playing field, not totally level but close enough.
> You can still take an Overdrive/Enhanced  486 x100+ and run with the
> low end Pentiums, I do it!

> As I remember,.....there was a flight/war sim online for awhile in
> beta test called Air Warrior. When they went into league format, they
> set up an evaluation prog that would tell them what you were running,
> and if it was fast enough for their sim. I don't think that would be
> too much of a hassle for Papyrus. It would keep the fast "frameraters"
> from totally dominating a one league system as they do now on Hawaii.
> And it would cut down on the complaints,....are ya listening Papy?? Ya
> can't say it's gonna cost ya money, cause what brings more returns, a
> full league with happy comoetitors that want to STAY; or a one leauge
> system with a large turnover ratio? Do the math Papyrus!

> (soap box mode off,...flame retardent gear on)

> Mike
> Lifes too short,....don't fold your underwear!

>>    Maybe they (Whoever actually runs the multiplayer Nascar system)
>>should introduce a class-system based on computer performance.  They
>>could break it down into 486's, "artificial" Pentiums, Pentium MMX's,
>>etc.

> > >> > <Long post about VGA being faster than SVGA snipped>

> > >> > GRAPHICS RATE and TRACTION and GEARING are all connected.

> > >> Same as ever: If you get a higher frame rate, a good driver will be able
> > >> to drive the car faster. Period.

> > >> On a high end machine, which can run SVGA at a constant 30 fps, there
> > >> should be no difference between VGA and SVGA. If SVGA yields 20 fps and
> > >> VGA yields 30fps, VGA will probably be faster due to the higher frame
> > >> rate.

> > >> The gearing change you mentioned was either a secondary effect of
> > >> carrying higher speeds, or you should have been using that gear all
> > >> along.

> > >> ---Jim Sokoloff

> > >Jim:

> > >I really am alittle shocked by your candid answer.  For Years Papyrus
> > >has been trying to convince us that all DRIVING SYSTEMS were created
> > >equal.  Now we you have said what we have all know.  The NASCAR
> > >software doesnt run equally on all systems..

> > Whoa now, Hoss... that's not what Jim was saying at all.  Read through
> > it again and this time pay close attention to the first paragraph.  "A
> > good driver will be able to drive the car faster."  That doesn't mean
> > the SOFTWARE gives him an advantage -- it means that thanks to the
> > faster frame rate, smoother transitions between car states, etc., that
> > a driver can be more consistent, more smooth, and more fluid in his
> > driving than a person whose display is more choppy and there is more
> > gap time between frames.
> > --

> > Papyrus Design Group, Inc.
> > The views expressed in this message are mine entirely
> > and do not represent Papyrus or Sierra in any official capacity.

> Tony:

> I standby what I said.  Better Hardware gives you a faster car.
> Why Cant you just say it.  Why cant you just say that PENTIUMS
> are FASTER than 486's.  Why cant you say that VGA is faster
> than SVGA.. Why cant you say that JOYSTICKS are faster than
> WHEELS.

> All we want to do is compete against each other fairly..

> Lets keep it simple..

> Don Wilshe, IVGA

> > >> > <Long post about VGA being faster than SVGA snipped>

> > >> > GRAPHICS RATE and TRACTION and GEARING are all connected.

> > >> Same as ever: If you get a higher frame rate, a good driver will be able
> > >> to drive the car faster. Period.

> > >> On a high end machine, which can run SVGA at a constant 30 fps, there
> > >> should be no difference between VGA and SVGA. If SVGA yields 20 fps and
> > >> VGA yields 30fps, VGA will probably be faster due to the higher frame
> > >> rate.

> > >> The gearing change you mentioned was either a secondary effect of
> > >> carrying higher speeds, or you should have been using that gear all
> > >> along.

> > >> ---Jim Sokoloff

> > >Jim:

> > >I really am alittle shocked by your candid answer.  For Years Papyrus
> > >has been trying to convince us that all DRIVING SYSTEMS were created
> > >equal.  Now we you have said what we have all know.  The NASCAR
> > >software doesnt run equally on all systems..

> > Whoa now, Hoss... that's not what Jim was saying at all.  Read through
> > it again and this time pay close attention to the first paragraph.  "A
> > good driver will be able to drive the car faster."  That doesn't mean
> > the SOFTWARE gives him an advantage -- it means that thanks to the
> > faster frame rate, smoother transitions between car states, etc., that
> > a driver can be more consistent, more smooth, and more fluid in his
> > driving than a person whose display is more choppy and there is more
> > gap time between frames.

> Tony:

> You couldnt of said it better.  Better HARDWARE is FASTER TIMES.  But
> its
> still the softwares responsibility to even the field.  Let me explain.
> When
> your software starts up its synchronizes the GRAPHICS RATE and the
> CONTROL
> DEVICE you have to make the FRAME RATES the same and you cant give some
> people advanatages.  It is the responsibility of PAPYRUS to slow down
> the FASTER machines and FRAME RATES to be the same for all of us.
> Whether
> as advertised on your SOFTWARE BOXES you have a 486-66 or a Pentium
> 300..

> Don Wilshe

> Nice Try....

> > --

> > Papyrus Design Group, Inc.
> > The views expressed in this message are mine entirely
> > and do not represent Papyrus or Sierra in any official capacity.

> >people advanatages.  It is the responsibility of PAPYRUS to slow down
> >the FASTER machines and FRAME RATES to be the same for all of us.

> ROF,L! I've seen some true gems on these forums but I think the above
> may actually be the stupidest statement I have ever read on the net.
> And that's saying a lot, there's a lot of competition on the net, you
> should be proud of yourself!

> Joe