N4 is just too hard

by **Tom Olive** » Sun, 27 May 2001 07:40:07

You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other
people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will
never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online
code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless
you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not
talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll
have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible.

All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short clip
of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say this
race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was
something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had
similar races at other tracks as well with this same group.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/(4.5 meg)

It can work.

Tom

by **Tom Olive** » Sun, 27 May 2001 07:45:29

You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other
people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will
never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online
code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless
you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not
talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll
have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible.

All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short clip
of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say this
race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was
something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had
similar races at other tracks as well with this same group.

http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg)

It can work.

Tom

by **Tom Olive** » Sun, 27 May 2001 07:48:46

You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect other
people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will
never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4 online
code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless
you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not
talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something we'll
have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible.

All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short clip
of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say this
race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment was
something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had
similar races at other tracks as well with this same group.

http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg)

It can work.

Tom

by **Tom Olive** » Sun, 27 May 2001 07:55:01

Sorry if this posted more than once.

by **Vintoo** » Sun, 27 May 2001 08:28:26

You can address all those reasons with just one word---------------WRONG.

As your replay shows, this game can be very very good with good drivers. It
looked like I was watching a race on TV.

Vintook

by **Matthew V. Jessic** » Sun, 27 May 2001 08:59:55

That was his thesis too. He's just a bad propagandist :)

> You can address all those reasons with just one word---------------WRONG.

> As your replay shows, this game can be very very good with good drivers. It
> looked like I was watching a race on TV.

by **Larr** » Sun, 27 May 2001 14:52:04

My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that Papyrus
won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in their
quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable.

All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That means
having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive
correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel movement.
32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code.

The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. We
NEED a controller trim-tab.

Other than that, it's fine.

Except for the boneheads online, of course.

-Larry

by **Vintoo** » Sun, 27 May 2001 21:24:19

The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get used
to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then I
keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there in
arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the range of
motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3 then
you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways drive
more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, you
can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will help
your controller feel better too.

Vintook

> My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that
Papyrus
> won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in their
> quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable.

> All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That means
> having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive
> correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel movement.
> 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code.

> The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike. We
> NEED a controller trim-tab.

> Other than that, it's fine.

> Except for the boneheads online, of course.

> -Larry

> > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect
other
> > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It will
> > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4
online
> > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless
> > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just not
> > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something
we'll
> > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible.

> > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a short
> clip
> > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say
> this
> > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment
was
> > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had
> > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group.

> > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg)

> > It can work.

> > Tom

by **Mike Whit** » Mon, 28 May 2001 02:36:06

This in a quote from Eddie Cheever about open wheel cars, but I believe it
applies to stock cars as well.

"Cars are set up so that if you were to let go of the steering wheel on the
straightaway, they would turn left by themselves. You're actually holding
the car on the straightaway and then releasing it at the right moment to
turn into a corner."

http://espn.go.com/rpm/irl/2001/0524/1204330.html

by **racefa** » Mon, 28 May 2001 10:04:04

There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I can
accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in the
setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched some
of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel
turned to the right while going down the straightaway.

> The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get used
> to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then I
> keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there in
> arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the range
of
> motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3
then
> you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways
drive
> more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup, you
> can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will help
> your controller feel better too.

> Vintook

> > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that
> Papyrus
> > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in
their
> > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable.

> > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That
means
> > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive
> > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel
movement.
> > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code.

> > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike.
We
> > NEED a controller trim-tab.

> > Other than that, it's fine.

> > Except for the boneheads online, of course.

> > -Larry

> > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect
> other
> > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It
will
> > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4
> online
> > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work. Unless
> > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just
not
> > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something
> we'll
> > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible.

> > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a
short
> > clip
> > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't say
> > this
> > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap segment
> was
> > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've had
> > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group.

> > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg)

> > > It can work.

> > > Tom

by **Eldre** » Mon, 28 May 2001 11:38:22

>There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I can
>accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in the
>setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched some
>of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel
>turned to the right while going down the straightaway.

Haven't we gone through all this already?

Eldred - deja vu all over again...
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Dave Henri** » Mon, 28 May 2001 12:11:32

yes we have covered this...and if you also watch the incar footage you
will see the wheel is NOT centered on the steering spline like a family car
is..each driver offsets the wheel to compensate for the right pull effect.
so when they are holding the wheel straight, it is actually pulling the
tires to the right
dave henrie

> There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I
can
> accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in
the
> setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched
some
> of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel
> turned to the right while going down the straightaway.

> > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get
used
> > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then
I
> > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there
in
> > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the
range
> of
> > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3
> then
> > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways
> drive
> > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup,
you
> > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will
help
> > your controller feel better too.

> > Vintook

> > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that
> > Papyrus
> > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in
> their
> > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable.

> > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That
> means
> > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive
> > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel
> movement.
> > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code.

> > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike.
> We
> > > NEED a controller trim-tab.

> > > Other than that, it's fine.

> > > Except for the boneheads online, of course.

> > > -Larry

> > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect
> > other
> > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It
> will
> > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4
> > online
> > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work.
Unless
> > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just
> not
> > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something
> > we'll
> > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible.

> > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a
> short
> > > clip
> > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't
say
> > > this
> > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap
segment
> > was
> > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've
had
> > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group.

> > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg)

> > > > It can work.

> > > > Tom

by **racefa** » Mon, 28 May 2001 13:35:13

I'm not saying the pull to the left shouldn't be there and yes the claims of
this being just like a real cup car are nothing new. I just don't think
it's as excessive as this "simulation" has portrayed it. Someday I'll sign
myself up for one of those 10 laps of Michigan for $1000 or whatever it is
and find out for myself.

> There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I
can
> accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in
the
> setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched
some
> of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel
> turned to the right while going down the straightaway.

> > The pull to the left is realistic and after a while you will just get
used
> > to it. I don't even notice it anymore unless I join an arcade race (then
I
> > keep smacking the wall cause I'm so used to the pull and it isn't there
in
> > arcade). I don't see any problems with the controller screen or the
range
> of
> > motion. It's exactly like GPL. If you think it should act more like N3
> then
> > you are out of luck. N4 is 180 degrees out from N3. The superspeedways
> drive
> > more correctly now then they ever did in N3. Mess with your car setup,
you
> > can do quite a bit to make it feel better and a few adjustments will
help
> > your controller feel better too.

> > Vintook

> > > My only complaint with N4 is the Controller code, and the fact that
> > Papyrus
> > > won't acknowledge the fact that not all wheels are THE SAME, and in
> their
> > > quest for 'realism' they have made some of our lives miserable.

> > > All I want is the controller to work as well as it did in N3. That
> means
> > > having a reasonable range of adjustment so the SuperSpeedways drive
> > > correctly, and you don't run the whole track with 1/2" of wheel
> movement.
> > > 32:1 is NOT enough ratio in the current controller code.

> > > The pull to the left? Well, as I said, not all controllers are alike.
> We
> > > NEED a controller trim-tab.

> > > Other than that, it's fine.

> > > Except for the boneheads online, of course.

> > > -Larry

> > > > You can't race with it. We're not good enough. People don't respect
> > other
> > > > people enough. The setups don't work. The cars are too twitchy. It
> will
> > > > never work for online racing. You can't run close together. The N4
> > online
> > > > code isn't good enough and a LAN is the only place it can work.
Unless
> > > > you're a real Nascar driver you'll never see a good race. We're just
> not
> > > > talented enough to make it work. Single car spins are just something
> > we'll
> > > > have to deal with. Racing side by side is impossible.

> > > > All things I've heard and at times even thought myself. Here is a
> short
> > > clip
> > > > of a replay from a Phoenix race I ran the other night. Now I won't
say
> > > this
> > > > race was perfect and we did have our problems, but this 20 lap
segment
> > was
> > > > something else. There were a few runs like this in the race. I've
had
> > > > similar races at other tracks as well with this same group.

> > > > http://www.justracin.net/pho.zip (4.5 meg)

> > > > It can work.

> > > > Tom

by pw » Mon, 28 May 2001 13:48:56

I can't figure out how to get the cars I race with to have this
realistic pull to the left feature. Any ideas?

-pw

by **ymenar** » Mon, 28 May 2001 13:56:41

> There is nothing realistic about the pull to the left. A little pull I
can
> accept but there is way too much in N4. I know you can adjust it out in
the
> setup but the car is too slow and won't turn in the corners. Watched
some
> of the in-car footage of the Busch race today and nobody has their wheel
> turned to the right while going down the straightaway.

That smell of Dj Vu ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...