rec.autos.simulators

From another one of my posts in this newsgroup, I submit the
following:

To all of you out there, I apologize.  Not to the whiners.  Not to the
impatiently abusive.  Just to those of you who don't need to see this
kind of reaction but know better than to react to all of the
complainers in here.  I just got tired of reading adolescent whining
and crying and let my emotions get the better of me.

I've said my piece, will take my "pipe and smoke it" (Jennifer) as is,
and patiently wait for Sierra/Papyrus to get their patch released.  My
life does not revolve around it, and I am grateful for any release
that can further my enjoyment of ICR2.  That, IMHO, is the key.  I
enjoy playing it now, and have learned to live with the
inconsistencies, because I realize trying to program things like AI
and the laws of physics to run on my PC is a feat in itself.

Thank you, and again, apologies to those with a conscience.

KS

Ray, reply lesson #101...

My name?  Yes.  My words?  Not until my reply to the following...

And now, my response that entire debate siding with the reply as it
relates to the patience needed for the patch release...

Ray, hope this helps you come to grips with your inability to read and
reply to the right posts or make sense of them.  You need the help.
Then you won't get flamed for accusing someone falsely, despite the
fact you don't even need to reply if you're going to be so nice and
speak those kind words to someone (even if it's me).  I really don't
care what you think unless you can actually put a thought together.

As for*** head comments, SHOULDN'T BE HERE = Ray

     <<I would have checked those things out before I bought the car,
just like trying out the ICR 2 demo before buying the game.>>

     Let's not forget that most problems don't manifest themselves until
well after you get the car home. That's why manufacturers have
warrantees.
     Nick
______________________________________________________________________

#6 (will he be #28 in '97) & #94 in the *real* quest for the Cup
My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/
______________________________________________________________________

As I said previously, the bugs don't ruin the game, but they do exist
and 8 months for the first patch is poor by any standards.

Richard

How about a little perspective here, folks. I enjoy virtual racing as much
as the next person, but it's still a game. Nobody's lives or livelihood is
at stake here (except possibly the Papyrus employees). Software is still an
inexact science, and last minute snags are always a possibility, not to
mention the logistics problems created by having Sierra in the release
loop. I think Papyrus would like to have an end to all the griping about
ICR2 as much as you would like to have the patch. So, take a deep breath
<inhale, exhale>, and give them a little time to sort things out.

Dave "davids" Sparks
Sequoia Motorsports

writes

Oh please. If software is bugged then the authors have are responsible
to fix it, if not legally then morally. If they don't fix it, and in a
timely fashion, I won't by any more of their products which is death for
any company.

Papyrus do excellent work, and if it wasn't for that then I wouldn't buy
any more of their products - I think their action over this ICR2 patch
has been very sloppy, and insulting to the people that bought the game
originally. To delay the patch and divert that work toward NASCAR2 and
all the other projects is dismissive to the point of contempt.

Congrats - that's probably the worst analogy I've ever heard. So you can
find every single flaw with a car BEFORE you buy it? Or when you drive
the car away and the gearbox falls out you just shrug and say "well, I
should have spotted that - it's not the garage's fault".

Sure.....

Cheers!
John

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  \     :|  |::|    :|       Team WW Racing TSW        |     |::|  |      /
    >   :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |    <
  /     :|__|::|____:/         Sim Racing News         \.____|::|__|      \
/_______:/  \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/  \._______\

Actually I'm not. I still do the occasional hotlap session, but I've run
too many races and been hit with the f*^&%* yellow flag bug, so I now
only run league races, and then without practice. It just annoys me too
much.

I actually worry about the opposite - that people will see my posts here
and read them as being "an official statement" of SRN!

Cheers!
John

                      _________________________________
          __    _____|                                 |_____    __
_________|  |__|    :|          John Wallace           |     |__|  |_________

  \     :|  |::|    :|       Team WW Racing TSW        |     |::|  |      /
    >   :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |    <
  /     :|__|::|____:/         Sim Racing News         \.____|::|__|      \
/_______:/  \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/  \._______\

Wait till your car goes in for a service and the garage decides to
ignore you for six months. After all, you only bought a product, you
don't expect it to WORK as well do you?

In your eagerness to post an elaborate reply, you appear to have
contrived to miss the entire point of what Terje was saying.

A case in point is your problem with Ford. Why? Because
_you_accepted_it. As long as you lay down, rolled over and let ford
tickle your tummy while they played around with your car, they will do
that again and again and again.

Make them aware that you're not happy, take your business elsewhere,
demand a courtesy car or compensation for the inconvenience they caused
you. You ARE entitled to it, but they won't offer as they expect the
customers to follow the flock.

Customers have the ultimate power, but only when they realise it and too
many just hand over their cash and accept the terms dictated.

Cheers!
John

If you feel that ICR2 works just fine, then you obviously aren't an IndyCar fan,
just a virtual racer (not that there's anything wrong with that, as Jerry Seinfeld
said).

If you watched the real races, you'd realize what an integral part of racing the
yellow flags are...they can mean the difference between winning and losing.

That doesn't mean I don't like the game...on the other hand, I love it, but I want
the damn bugs fixed.  The game is a near perfect representation of CART, but with
the yellow flag bug, it's defective.

Do we expect bug free software?  No..very few programs get shipped bug-free, but
they get patched.  What was the point in Papyrus waiting for the Win95 version to
ship before the DOS patch goes out?  To reduce the distribution costs, no doubt.

When IndyCar (the original) shipped, there were about 3 patches in the first month,
if my memory serves me (correct me if I'm wrong).

What happened to that level of customer service?  Sierra flushed it, apparently.

Neil
--
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel..

       Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

Right again.  I don't take well to personal attacks, and perhaps in my
zeal to complain about the whining I let the emotions of the moment
get the better of me.  Other than one reply in particular (Ray), I've
dealt with the opinions and have thought them in good taste.

My next response (if any) will be under a new heading.  Consider that
done.

KS

says...

For a $20,000 car, i'd pitch a ***. For a $50 game, no. The car analogy was
flawed from the beginning 'cause a car is tangible and software isn't, so I
never should have said it.

I'm tired of debating, I have nothing more to say about this topic (which was
pretty silly to begin with, and I don't even remember how it started, and...
awww heck.)

get a clue, and stop flaming everyone.  For once someone said something
inteligent in this thread, but I guess it takes a certain kind of person to
appreciate it.

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada