Archive rec.autos.simulators

A Papy Open wheel sim...

John Bod

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by John Bod » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 00:21:47

You are completely full of poo-poo-ca-ca on the return of the 25/8
rule, Matt.

A common formula will mean that Indy will remain wide-open, and we
will see more cooperation between CART and the IRL in the future,
possibly to the extent that a single governing body will be
established using the "Indycar" name to serve as an umbrella
organization for both series.  CART will manage and sanction CART
races, the IRL will manage and sanction CART races, but the "Indycar"
organization will likely be responsible for serving as a liason to
help tie the two entities together in a mutally-beneficial manner.

United they stand, divided they both suffer.

-- JB

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 08:03:01 -0400, Matt Lanzer


>     Indy is the reason IRL teams have sponsors. It's the only race that gives
>them good exposure. If only 8 IRL teams were fast enough to get into the 500,
>the sponsors on those other teams would start dropping like flies. No sponsors =
>no team for the rest of the IRL schedule, decimating the IRL field.

>In case some of you aren't familiar with the CART/IRL split...

>     Tony George won't let that happen, so he'll bring back the old rule
>allowing 25 IRL cars and 8 cars from anyone else (CART). It's an actual rule
>that the Speedway/IRL president Tony George made up so CART teams would be
>forced to join the IRL if they all wanted a shot at Indy. Obviously it didn't
>work, and CART boycotted the Indy 500 in 1996 and had their own race on Memorial
>Day weekend against the Indy 500 (the US 500).
>     In '97 the IRL then adopted different engine/chassis rules from CART making
>it even more difficult (expensive) for CART teams to compete at Indy. Since
>George saw that no CART teams wanted to race at Indy anymore he did away with
>the 25/8 rule, knowing all of his IRL teams would be safely in the field at
>Indy.
>    Until 2000... When CART was realizing how big of an event Indy still is,
>CART owner Chip Ganassi and his CART sponsor Target said "What the F*ck! Let's
>do it. We've got Montoya and Vasser, we'll walk in, spend 2 or 3 million, and
>walk away with the trophy. Which is exactly what they did.
>     Other CART teams took notice (Penske, TeamGreen with Andretti) along with
>Ganassi and said, "Well Hell... WE can do THAT!" And in 2001, they did. In the
>final 2001 Indy 500 standings, Penske took places 1 & 2 with CART drivers Helio
>Castroneves and Gil DeFerran. Team Greene took Andretti (his only entry) to
>third place. Ganassi brought three of his cars home in positions 4, 5, and 6
>with CART drivers Jimmy Vasser and Bruno Junqueria (sp?), and NASCAR driver Tony
>Stewart, respectively. Ganassi also had another entry, CART driver Nicholas
>Minassian, but his car expired in the early stages of the race, leaving him in
>position 28 or 29.

>     Did I mention the CART guys are racing in unfamiliar equipment that the IRL
>guys race all year long?

>     Now, a LOT of CART teams took notice, and next year many are planning an
>all-out *** of the Indy 500. Green will have all 3 of his cars, at least 2
>from Ganassi and Penske, plus teams like Rahal, Mo Nunn, Fernandez,
>Newmann/Haas, PacWest, Patrick, and Players. With all of these CART teams
>participating and squeezing IRL regulars out of the Indy 500 field in 2002, I
>think it's a given that Tony George will try to save his series by once again
>instituting the 25/8 rule for 2003.

>Then like I said before, it's gonna be 1996 all over again...

>Warlock!

>> I think it might be the opposite, actually.  25 CART, plus the top 8 IRL
>> drivers.  There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitive against the
>> CART teams, and I see no way in the future either.  Some people even
>> speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule.

>> --
>> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
>> -- May the Downforce be with you...
>> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
>> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Matt Lanze

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Matt Lanze » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 01:53:01


> You are completely full of poo-poo-ca-ca on the return of the 25/8
> rule, Matt.

Well, that's a lot better than being full of sh!t (like I'm usually told)...
What's the status on the official, non-beta release of CART CS2K???
I'm salivating at the thought...

Warlock!

David G Fishe

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by David G Fishe » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 05:16:28

No.

David G Fisher



> > This explains a lot.

> Explains a lot of what?     Gee DGF your hit-and-run tactics don't work
> anymore, don't you see it?

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

John Bod

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by John Bod » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 07:40:14

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:53:01 -0400, Matt Lanzer



>> You are completely full of poo-poo-ca-ca on the return of the 25/8
>> rule, Matt.

>Well, that's a lot better than being full of sh!t (like I'm usually told)...

LOL!

It's coming along nicely -- we've got several CART tracks that are
usable but not finalized yet.  I think you're going to like the end
result!

;-)

-- JB

Kai Fulle

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Kai Fulle » Fri, 08 Jun 2001 08:30:53

Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe


>    Yes the race probably would have been more even if the IRL speedsters
had
> lasted the whole event.  But you are discounting the HUGE advantage the
IRL
> has with equipment and scheduling.  While the IRL teams had the whole
month
> to prepare for qualifying and the race, the CART teams had two events
prior
> to Indy and one immeadiately after.  And not just any event, the weekend
> before Indy they were in Japan.  Finally the 6 or 7 years that the CART
> teams were away from Indy also gave the IRL teams a big 'notebook'
> advantage.  The IRL teams had data from all those races concerning the
> chassis and engines.  It's not just a matter of the drivers jumping into a
> different type of car and adjusting, the teams have a huge preparation
> deficit to overcome.
>   Last year Buddy Lazier was faster than Juan Montoya except when it
> counted, at the finish.  And this year the Menard drivers 'should' have
> coasted to an easy win but
> Ray drove himself into the wall trying to race with a Cart driver.
>   Speaking of Mennard,(one or two n's? ymenard always confuses me)  Back
> when the IRL first started, Mennard was the defacto test team...They had
> something like 1000 laps at the brickyard before anyone else got a
chassis.
> They had the IRL's greatest driver in Tony Stewart.  They had the biggest
> budgets.  How many Indy races has Team Mennard won?
> dave henrie


> George would never redo something as stupid as the 25/8 rule.  It was an
> idiotic idea before, and seeing the error of his ways, it was removed.
> And yes, the IRL was severly hurt by the results in this year's 500.
> However, just look at what happened to every IRL driver who had a
> realistic chance.  Hornish, Sharp, and Fisher all spun on cold tires.
> That's just a racing deal, it happens, and it has been worse than that
> pre-IRL (I believe 1992, but it's whatever year both Jeff and Mario
> Andretti ended up in the hospital).  Lazier, Gordon, and Dismore both had
> mechanical failures, hardly says anything about how good they are as
> drivers.  Hell, Hornish and Dismore at least were as fast as Gil and
> Helio, and very likely faster than them.

> The fact that it is unfamiliar equipment proves very little.  There was
> plenty of time to get up to speed in these cars before the race actually
> begins.  These guys have driven a variety of cars before getting this far,
> and they should be able to adjust.  It would be sad if they were unable to
> adjust.  They didn't just jump in these cars to days before the race and
> get only an hour each day of practice time the two days beforehand.

> -Pav


> >      Indy is the reason IRL teams have sponsors. It's the only race that
> gives
> > them good exposure. If only 8 IRL teams were fast enough to get into the
> 500,
> > the sponsors on those other teams would start dropping like flies. No
> sponsors =
> > no team for the rest of the IRL schedule, decimating the IRL field.

> > In case some of you aren't familiar with the CART/IRL split...

> >      Tony George won't let that happen, so he'll bring back the old rule
> > allowing 25 IRL cars and 8 cars from anyone else (CART). It's an actual
> rule
> > that the Speedway/IRL president Tony George made up so CART teams would
be
> > forced to join the IRL if they all wanted a shot at Indy. Obviously it
> didn't
> > work, and CART boycotted the Indy 500 in 1996 and had their own race on
> Memorial
> > Day weekend against the Indy 500 (the US 500).
> >      In '97 the IRL then adopted different engine/chassis rules from
CART
> making
> > it even more difficult (expensive) for CART teams to compete at Indy.
> Since
> > George saw that no CART teams wanted to race at Indy anymore he did away
> with
> > the 25/8 rule, knowing all of his IRL teams would be safely in the field
> at
> > Indy.
> >     Until 2000... When CART was realizing how big of an event Indy still
> is,
> > CART owner Chip Ganassi and his CART sponsor Target said "What the F*ck!
> Let's
> > do it. We've got Montoya and Vasser, we'll walk in, spend 2 or 3
million,
> and
> > walk away with the trophy. Which is exactly what they did.
> >      Other CART teams took notice (Penske, TeamGreen with Andretti)
along
> with
> > Ganassi and said, "Well Hell... WE can do THAT!" And in 2001, they did.
In
> the
> > final 2001 Indy 500 standings, Penske took places 1 & 2 with CART
drivers
> Helio
> > Castroneves and Gil DeFerran. Team Greene took Andretti (his only entry)
> to
> > third place. Ganassi brought three of his cars home in positions 4, 5,
and
> 6
> > with CART drivers Jimmy Vasser and Bruno Junqueria (sp?), and NASCAR
> driver Tony
> > Stewart, respectively. Ganassi also had another entry, CART driver
> Nicholas
> > Minassian, but his car expired in the early stages of the race, leaving
> him in
> > position 28 or 29.

> >      Did I mention the CART guys are racing in unfamiliar equipment that
> the IRL
> > guys race all year long?

> >      Now, a LOT of CART teams took notice, and next year many are
planning
> an
> > all-out *** of the Indy 500. Green will have all 3 of his cars, at
> least 2
> > from Ganassi and Penske, plus teams like Rahal, Mo Nunn, Fernandez,
> > Newmann/Haas, PacWest, Patrick, and Players. With all of these CART
teams
> > participating and squeezing IRL regulars out of the Indy 500 field in
> 2002, I
> > think it's a given that Tony George will try to save his series by once
> again
> > instituting the 25/8 rule for 2003.

> > Then like I said before, it's gonna be 1996 all over again...

> > Warlock!

> > > I think it might be the opposite, actually.  25 CART, plus the top 8
IRL
> > > drivers.  There is presently no way IRL teams can be competitive
against
> the
> > > CART teams, and I see no way in the future either.  Some people even
> > > speculate a 30 CART/3 IRL rule.

> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Matt Lanze

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Matt Lanze » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 03:23:46

If you would, please let the folks at the seventhgear.com website (probably in
the "Off Topic" forum) know how things are going with updates now and then...
There's alot of people in there waiting for it! ;)

Warlock!


> It's coming along nicely -- we've got several CART tracks that are
> usable but not finalized yet.  I think you're going to like the end
> result!

> ;-)

> -- JB

ymenar

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by ymenar » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 06:14:46


> Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe

Well if this was the case, I would also be the driver   ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Scott B. Huste

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Scott B. Huste » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 06:51:31

And the company would be broke and in Chapter 11 !!   ROFLMAO   ;)

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450



> > Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe

> Well if this was the case, I would also be the driver   ;-)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Tim

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Tim » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 12:41:42



> And the company would be broke and in Chapter 11 !!   ROFLMAO   ;)

> --
> Scott B. Husted
> PA-Scott
> ICQ#4395450

Okay;  just what in the Hell is ROFLMAO ??! :)




> > > Hey I though ymenard was the owner on "Menards" :) hehe

> > Well if this was the case, I would also be the driver   ;-)

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Matt Lanze

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Matt Lanze » Sat, 09 Jun 2001 20:36:31


> Okay;  just what in the Hell is ROFLMAO ??! :)

Rolling On Floor Laughing My Ass Off!

Warlock!

Jesse Blac

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Jesse Blac » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:43:49

Are you implying that the CART guys never had cold tires that they could
spin on?  The CART guys were driving the same race in similar cars and were
just as prone to mechanical failure...but spinning on cold tires seems to be
a driver error to me.

JB

RegularRace

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by RegularRace » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:29:49

They DID NOT KNOW that we wanted a 1960's Grand Prix simulation
though......and they made it anyways.


Jan Verschuere

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Jan Verschuere » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 01:54:45

I wouldn't mind not getting what I'd hoped for if I got something better
instead *again*.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Tim

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by Tim » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:02:23




> > Okay;  just what in the Hell is ROFLMAO ??! :)

> Rolling On Floor Laughing My Ass Off!

> Warlock!

Thanks Warlock!
I love how things get longer and more descriptive.
HTOMP,ISAMONRSQWMOR. MIGIO,ITOESEUTH.
("Having Tea On My Porch, I Saw A Meadowlark..."

Tim

NYR211993

A Papy Open wheel sim...

by NYR211993 » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:59:59

CART sim!

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