rec.autos.simulators

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

Philste

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Philste » Fri, 02 May 2003 08:46:02

I don't have Direct X 9 installed and you're right on the money regarding
Win98 (I have a dual boot Win98 - WinXP... my Rockfire USB adapter/TSW is
not recognized in WinXP so all my racing sims are installed in the Win98
boot).

You'll to excuse this poor excuse of a gamer... I'm no computer expert, just
an historian trying to race virtually (or virtually race?).

--
Philippe "Philster" Sergerie



> On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:53:52 -0400, "Philster"

> >- Live for Speed: my TSW doesn't work properly in it and FPS are shaky
> >(compared to the sim I run on a regular basis: N2003).
> >- Netkar: can't say, the game loads but I can't go to a track, it says
I'm
> >missing a .dll file...

> DX9?

> >- Racer: installed the latest version, the game starts. When I load a
track,
> >the progress meter goes from left to right, then nothing else happens.

> Are you running Win98? Most times this is a firewall or network
> problem. No TCP/IP (can that even happen these days? ;) ) or
> something. Errors in c:\sims\racer\QLOG.txt like 'Can't create network
> socket'.

> Ruud van Gaal
> Free car sim: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Pencil art  : http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Dave Henri

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Dave Henri » Fri, 02 May 2003 10:43:35



  What version of DirectX did you have installed before DX8 came out?????
???? ????? ?????
It's just another dx update...we've had a slew of them...lose your fear...
:)

dave henrie

Ruud van Ga

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Ruud van Ga » Fri, 02 May 2003 17:22:11




>> I'd have to say that my money is on Netkar at this point in time.

>Last I heard the guy was going to cease development on it for quite some
>time...

Where did you hear that?
Would be a shame. Perhaps he's just moving to a commercial
implementation?

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Ruud van Ga

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Ruud van Ga » Fri, 02 May 2003 17:26:21

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:46:02 -0400, "Philster"


>I don't have Direct X 9 installed and you're right on the money regarding
>Win98 (I have a dual boot Win98 - WinXP... my Rockfire USB adapter/TSW is
>not recognized in WinXP so all my racing sims are installed in the Win98
>boot).

Ah, too bad; indeed most problems of the network error are related to
Win98. Racer has no problems on XP but it's a shame your TSW isn't
supported. :(

You are just part of the majority. ;)
I didn't really mean to make Racer a common game (and still don't
intend to), but it would be nice to make it work on most everything
that's a decent OS. Too bad Win98 isn't one of them. :)
It seems everything gets more complex though; fortunately my PS2 is
mainly touch & go, but even my latest amplifier is more of a computer
than an amplifier...

If you ever get the controllers on XP working again, then try Racer on
that.

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Ruud van Ga

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Ruud van Ga » Fri, 02 May 2003 17:35:28

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:04:55 -0500, William Bradshaw



><SNIPPED COOL INFO>

>Ruud, you never cease to amaze me. As far as I know, you're going to be
>the first to impliment an actual 3D***pit (this is the intent,
>right?).

Thanks and yes, I'm always into gadgets, instead of targetting for
ports on the Atari 2600. ;-)
Actually, MS Flightsim 2002 supports it (trackIR), IL2 Sturmovic does
and a couple of others.

The question is one of quality if you go to headsets. I must say that
I think our racing rig with the big motion platform, 3 displays and
the steering wheel (not too mention subwoofer underneath the chair)
will probably feel quite ok without wearing virtual glasses.
But perhaps a 3D view of the game will convince me otherwise. It's
just that headaches are so close around the corner with these things.

Hehe, since a Racer v1.0 will probably take 2 years still, I aim for
hardware in the year 2005. Although efficiency is always important,
and I do still develop on a PII-400. If only to find the weak spots
more easily.
It's not really noble actually; it's just that proper hardware is much
more fun to play with... :)

Actually, even though I say so myself, the physics engine is quite ok
already, except for the collision detection (but that's a separate
entity and shouldn't really be included in 'physics engine').
There are still details, like various camber & caster effects, but
those will be in in a few months at most. The rest of the car physics
is a pretty good base to simulate a wide range of cars pretty good.
Oh, except for 4WD. :(

Multiplayer is roughly working, it's just very very unpolished, and
there's a mysterious 2-player limit which is probably a single
too-restrictive 'if' somewhere...

That's the idea. :)
Currently someone has Liberty City converted (GTA3). Cool stuff. :)

I will, thanks for the appreciative words!

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Pencil art  : http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Carl Ribbegaard

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Carl Ribbegaard » Fri, 02 May 2003 17:58:26

Yes, of course.
If you're doing a privateer project, why wouldn't you have the right to use
the latest tools?

You really should! :-D

William Bradsha

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by William Bradsha » Sat, 03 May 2003 06:30:02


> On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:04:55 -0500, William Bradshaw


>><SNIPPED COOL INFO>

>>Ruud, you never cease to amaze me. As far as I know, you're going to be
>>the first to impliment an actual 3D***pit (this is the intent,
>>right?).

> Thanks and yes, I'm always into gadgets, instead of targetting for
> ports on the Atari 2600. ;-)
> Actually, MS Flightsim 2002 supports it (trackIR), IL2 Sturmovic does
> and a couple of others.

> The question is one of quality if you go to headsets. I must say that
> I think our racing rig with the big motion platform, 3 displays and
> the steering wheel (not too mention subwoofer underneath the chair)
> will probably feel quite ok without wearing virtual glasses.
> But perhaps a 3D view of the game will convince me otherwise. It's
> just that headaches are so close around the corner with these things.

That's certainly a big problem, and I hope they find a way around their
devices causing headaches. Though, I have been told that you have to
slowly graduate yourself to full use of it. As in you should only play
for a hour or so at a time, until your brain can adjust to it completely.

Two years or five years, it would still be one of the better
non-commercial sims out there. I've gotta admire you for using a 400 MHz
machine, too, when just about everyone else is designing their software
for "next months" PC. It'll certainly come in handy when not everyone
out there has a 2+ GHz machine. :)

True, that the physics pretty good. To me, they still feel weird.
Probably because of the formulas you use.

Collision detection - I didn't even mean to imply anything about it. I,
like a lot of people, have experienced some weird things when the car
decides to go airborne after a collision. It'll be fixed, so it's no
problem to me. ;)

I'm still trying to come to terms with the tire model you're using, or
those set in the specific car specs. I've had quite a bit of 'tire
squall' when turning at low speed, which is kinda odd. But I won't be
able to really test it until the author of the Indianapolis track fixes
the bump problems and when your next release includes a better control
setup.

Ouch. I haven't gotten a chance to try it, simply because I'd prefer to
see what the cars can and cannot do while testing. Again, I'm sure it'll
get sorted out down the road. :)

Yes, I seen the screenshots over in your forum at racesimcentral.com.
All in all, it looks pretty good for the state it's in. Though, I do
believe there was talk about the low fps and your graphics engine have
trouble with it (and, of course, the tool he was using to covert it over
from).

Not a problem, Ruud. I'm merely giving credit (and quips! haha) where
it's due. :)

-Will

Ped Xin

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Ped Xin » Sat, 03 May 2003 08:55:37



I think it was on the official site.  IIRC, he's moving to Japan for a
while.

Ruud van Ga

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Ruud van Ga » Sat, 03 May 2003 17:25:24

On Thu, 01 May 2003 16:30:02 -0500, William Bradshaw



...
>> But perhaps a 3D view of the game will convince me otherwise. It's
>> just that headaches are so close around the corner with these things.

>That's certainly a big problem, and I hope they find a way around their
>devices causing headaches. Though, I have been told that you have to
>slowly graduate yourself to full use of it. As in you should only play
>for a hour or so at a time, until your brain can adjust to it completely.

Hm, that sounds ok, although in practice, with FPS games, I've found
that I gradually became less resistant to 90 degree views and fast
motion. May also be old age. ;-)
VR glasses may be different, but they might just need fast 100Hz modes
or something.

...

Hehe, it's more that I haven't got a faster machine around yet.
Although my laptop is 1Ghz (but only has 128Mb and a slow gfx card).
Still, it's useful; compile times on Linux are very much ok (on
Windows, memory quickly runs out at 256Mb).

...

Probably because of the numbers people put in. The car.ini file
determines a lot, and 50% of the feel is the tire physics (Pacejka).
The effects of car parameters all seem to work ok, so it's more a
matter of 'building' the right car.

That is completely car-dependent though. And the skid is too simple;
I'm building a better audio system and that includes multiple skid
samples. It's too on/off right now (although ofcourse tweakable).

I don't know what hardware he has, but I'd expect a bit of trouble
when running a track of that scale. After all, Racer's architecture is
more targeted at race tracks of limited view size.
LOD will help in the future (and LC is a great test track for that;
all the LOD objects are there). I was surprised he could even load
that track size in Racer at all actually.

Cheers,

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Eldre

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Eldre » Sat, 03 May 2003 19:39:35





>> >Why is everyone somewhat annoyed with the Wests?  Let's see 3 projects,
>> >0 releases.  (and it's not just sim fans that are upset, but publishers
>> >as well.)  Sure all they did was put up a web page, again.

>> 3 projects?  WSC, RL...what's the 3rd?

>I guess that was their Rally Simulation, which was canned because ***
>went (almost?) bankrupt.

Rally?  Never heard about that one.  I'm not a rally fan, so that never hit my
radar screen.  I have threads about rally games filtered, so I probably never
saw it.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank:-1.950
MonsterRank: +305.145
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Eldre » Sat, 03 May 2003 19:39:34



>  What version of DirectX did you have installed before DX8 came out?????
>???? ????? ?????
>It's just another dx update...we've had a slew of them...lose your fear...
>:)

>dave henrie

Have you upgraded to WinXP yet?  It's just another OS...we've had a slew of
them...lose your fear...
<ducking>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-1.950
MonsterRank: +305.145
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Dave Henri

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by Dave Henri » Sat, 03 May 2003 22:07:56





>>  What version of DirectX did you have installed before DX8 came
>>  out?????
>>???? ????? ?????
>>It's just another dx update...we've had a slew of them...lose your
>>fear...
>>:)

>>dave henrie

> Have you upgraded to WinXP yet?  It's just another OS...we've had a
> slew of them...lose your fear...
> <ducking>

> Eldred

LOL!  Good one Sir Eldred.  

If XP was priced the same as DirectX releases...I'd have it.  Just can't
see going out to buy something that replaces something that still works
well.  IF I ever get the $$ for a new system I'll migrate to XP or even
better, whatever it's successor is, but to just throw out XX$$ to load a
sim or type on the net doesn't seem to be a very good  benefit/cost to me.

dave(the chickenman)henrie

mcewe

Racing legends - Is the dream over ?

by mcewe » Sun, 04 May 2003 23:19:04

I don't think so.  As I understand the premise of their game is that
the actual componant characteristics make up the graphic and the
performance attributes of the chassis, instead of it being a black box
of performance code slightly divorced from the graphics display as
most titles are today.

Very ambious for 2 guys and no backer (yes 3 now + a spouse let's not
be anal), it would require some detailed information on the actual
componants and how they're put together.  Instead of starting with a
well documented known simple chassis like a Lotus 7 or formula ford
(imagine the exposure Van Diemen or Swift would get for little
outlay), they start with 2 of the rarest and most fragile high
performance cars in existance: Lotus 49 & Ferrari 512.  Even Colin
Chapman didn't know the stress limits of the 49.  It's like they
intentially went out to make things *** themselves.

Diluting the effort still further is the effort spent on some lovingly
crafted graphics on non-performance related accessories like pit
garages and fuel cans.  As lovely to look at as they are they don't
advance a release date, it seems like a lack of focus.

I don't think Bill Gates spent too much time worrying about Microsofts
logo BEFORE DOS 1.0 was released.

Remember when you were a kid and figured you'd be a giant killer with
some scheme you drew in coloured pencil.....??  Welcome to the
internet age...


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