rec.autos.simulators

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

Don Wilsh

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Don Wilsh » Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Drivers:

Lately there has been alot of flack about drivers
running unbelieveable speeds at tracks.  People
claim that other drivers are running unattainable
speeds because they have anaylzed the REPLAY DATA!!!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Remember the REPLAY DATA and
speeds show on the SCREEN at 2 to 3 mph faster than
the actually speeds run.  When someone in a race
runs 186's the replays will show him at 188's.

Don Wilshe, IVGA

Has anyone else ever noticed this problem!!!!!

Don Wilsh

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Don Wilsh » Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:00:00



> > Drivers:

> > Lately there has been alot of flack about drivers
> > running unbelieveable speeds at tracks.  People
> > claim that other drivers are running unattainable
> > speeds because they have anaylzed the REPLAY DATA!!!

> > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Remember the REPLAY DATA and
> > speeds show on the SCREEN at 2 to 3 mph faster than
> > the actually speeds run.  When someone in a race
> > runs 186's the replays will show him at 188's.

> > Don Wilshe, IVGA

> > Has anyone else ever noticed this problem!!!!!

>     Don since when did the replay mode show lap speeds ... Mine doesnt
> but it shows the speeds the car is running not laps speeds .

It doesnt show lap times unless you write a program that sums the
data..!!!!!

???????/  Lost me !!!!

 I

I defend everyone.. Even you..  Its not my job or anyone to excuse
anyone
of cheating.  Lets leave it up to NASCAR and PAPYRUS to monitor what
goes
on....

I just love it!!!!!!!!188's at Michigan with ace setup huh ... man

188's at Michigan at Michigan... Sure why not... Lets go try it..  I can
see that in PRACTICE mode with drafting you can run 189's....  Hell I
ran 184.951 my first qual at mic with a 14 mph wind out of the NW...  

It also amazes me ,even though i wasnt there but i

Yes.. and dont forget YOUR BOY Donny Lia qaulified right next to him at
186.300  I wish now I had save that qual resuilts....  No... Most of
the people qualified in the 183's a couple in the 184's..

Hmm pretty

I dont know if you are talking about MONDY OR WEDNESDAY!!!!

 Please give a

I support HACKS... Who when never not me.... Thats a lie!!!!

 and must really like those guys helping

Paul... just who are you accusing of cheating now....

BTW I dont need to you to let me me win any race with you i can

I guess if you cant beat me you must assume that I am cheating..  

 annd nice blocking at Tally last week

Blocking...  Not you.. You were 4 cars back...
When I am in the lead I dont have to move over....

PC/.... This is a ***message and should be private email.. What are
you
trying to prove with this PUBLIC MESSAGE..?????

Paul Carillon Jr

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Paul Carillon Jr » Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:00:00


> BTW I dont need to you to let me me win any race with you i can
> > do it on my own with no hacks ...

> I guess if you cant beat me you must assume that I am cheating..

Don I know i can beat you if you are not cheating aand just questioning
some things thats all.......

Excuse me Don but dont you remember who the Third car in the breakaway
draft was you were leading?????It was you ,another driver which i cant
remember and me.We did some dicing and good racing I lead a lap i belive
but what i noticed was everytime you took the lead you came out of turn
2 and stayed down by the white line the whole backstretch then exiting
the tri-oval you did the same thing going into turn 1 you stayed on the
white line .Now if it were the last lap i could see this and accept it
more but with 7+ laps togo i thought it was a joke!I wish i wouldnt have
lost the draft because i would have loved to be in second place and you
do that to me because one of us if not both of us would be spinning
coming out of 4 would you have treid that on me.I would not of wrecked
us on purpose but i would have went to the grass to get by you and if
that means ruing the day for us then so be it .Thats BS racing I am one
for a good race but let me make it clear i WILL NOT wreck anyone on
purpose but if an accident happens because of someones bs driving i
figure That Racing!! and will take a loss.

I will do it in private if you like but i will express my opion if i
disagree with it when it is posted here ... this is the American way and
i believe we are still a free country!I am not bad mouthing you just
stating some information as how I know it to be

One other thing about Huggy at Michigan last monday.. I talked with
someone who told me they had been on the track for 4 laps when they
passed Huggy coming out of the pits and they were several seconds back
but Huggy caught them on the front stretch and followed them thru turns
1&2 and then preceded to pass them with no problem ..like the were
sitting still.I cannot figure how 2 cars with the same gearing and they
dont accelerate the same.BUT Dont give me this BS that they caught a
draft because you have one car on warm tires and one on cold and they
exited that corner with a good run.It is just not possiblke in MY MIND
for this to happen.. not with equal setups.Now if they ran a few laps
together then this happened then ok but not with one just exiting the
pits.This is my opinion and i am entilted to it!

Paul Carillon

BTW We can continue this in Private if you would like :)

Paul Carillon Jr

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Paul Carillon Jr » Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:00:00


> Drivers:

> Lately there has been alot of flack about drivers
> running unbelieveable speeds at tracks.  People
> claim that other drivers are running unattainable
> speeds because they have anaylzed the REPLAY DATA!!!

> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Remember the REPLAY DATA and
> speeds show on the SCREEN at 2 to 3 mph faster than
> the actually speeds run.  When someone in a race
> runs 186's the replays will show him at 188's.

> Don Wilshe, IVGA

> Has anyone else ever noticed this problem!!!!!

    Don since when did the replay mode show lap speeds ... Mine doesnt
but it shows the speeds the car is running not laps speeds .
    Don what about the online does the standings show this aaalso... I
think not.Looks like your boy Huggins how you admire greatly has done it
again.I just love it!!!!!!!!188's at Michigan with ace setup huh ... man
is he awesome..... It also amazes me ,even though i wasnt there but i
know many of the drivers who were there last week including
yourself,that everyone with the ace setup qualified somewhere in the 184
range except your boy Huggins who qualified in the 186 range.Hmm pretty
confusing ,well a little any ways then in the practice everyone runs hi
184's to mid 185's but not Huggy he runs 188's!!!!!!!! Please give a
freaking break you support hacks and must really like those guys helping
you!!..BTW I dont need to you to let me me win any race with you i can
do it on my own with no hacks ... annd nice blocking at Tally last week

Paul Carillon

Paul Carillon Jr

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Paul Carillon Jr » Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:00:00



> It also amazes me ,even though i wasnt there but i
> > know many of the drivers who were there last week including
> > yourself,that everyone with the ace setup qualified somewhere in the 184
> > range except your boy Huggins who qualified in the 186 range.

> Yes.. and dont forget YOUR BOY Donny Lia qaulified right next to him at
> 186.300  I wish now I had save that qual resuilts....  No... Most of
> the people qualified in the 183's a couple in the 184's..

Well for one Donnie is not my boy and my point exactly you have 2 guys
over 186.3 and the rest of the feild are barely cracking 184.. now you
know why i haave never trusted these guys in the first place.

Paul

David Spark

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by David Spark » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00


>Drivers:

>Lately there has been alot of flack about drivers
>running unbelieveable speeds at tracks.  People
>claim that other drivers are running unattainable
>speeds because they have anaylzed the REPLAY DATA!!!

>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Remember the REPLAY DATA and
>speeds show on the SCREEN at 2 to 3 mph faster than
>the actually speeds run.  When someone in a race
>runs 186's the replays will show him at 188's.

>Don Wilshe, IVGA

>Has anyone else ever noticed this problem!!!!!

Where do you get this information, Don? It takes the car X frames to get
around the track, and the track is L miles long, then the average speed is:

  S (miles/hour) = 3600 (secs/hour) * L (miles) * (15 (frames/sec) / X
(frames))

Yes, there may be a little warping now and then that causes aberrations in
a single lap, but the average speed over a period of several laps will be
consistent.

I've analyzed lots of replays, and I've yet to see what you're describing.

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars
Late Night League: http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html
Hawaii Handle: davids

Marcus Ple

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Marcus Ple » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00


>Drivers:

>Lately there has been alot of flack about drivers
>running unbelieveable speeds at tracks.  People
>claim that other drivers are running unattainable
>speeds because they have anaylzed the REPLAY DATA!!!

>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Remember the REPLAY DATA and
>speeds show on the SCREEN at 2 to 3 mph faster than
>the actually speeds run.  When someone in a race
>runs 186's the replays will show him at 188's.

>Don Wilshe, IVGA

>Has anyone else ever noticed this problem!!!!!

Only when I was stuffing altered packets into the pipe.  ;-)

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.  Actually, I have never looked
at the replays with as much scrutiny as everyone else seems to.

--Marcus

Robert Plattt

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Robert Plattt » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Paul the next time Don starts that blocking ***during the whole race do
what i do to blockers bump their asses a tad in the turns or going into the
turns and they'll slid up.But if he is blocking just the last two laps of
the race there is nothing wrong with that.If he is blocking everytime he
gets in the lead let him run the apron and your normal line and sling shot
past him on the outside of him on the back stretch  or just bump him going
into the turn and he slid up the track a little then you can get position.

GT86


>> BTW I dont need to you to let me me win any race with you i can
>> > do it on my own with no hacks ...

>> I guess if you cant beat me you must assume that I am cheating..

>Don I know i can beat you if you are not cheating aand just questioning
>some things thats all.......

>>  annd nice blocking at Tally last week

>> Blocking...  Not you.. You were 4 cars back...
>> When I am in the lead I dont have to move over....

>Excuse me Don but dont you remember who the Third car in the breakaway
>draft was you were leading?????It was you ,another driver which i cant
>remember and me.We did some dicing and good racing I lead a lap i belive
>but what i noticed was everytime you took the lead you came out of turn
>2 and stayed down by the white line the whole backstretch then exiting
>the tri-oval you did the same thing going into turn 1 you stayed on the
>white line .Now if it were the last lap i could see this and accept it
>more but with 7+ laps togo i thought it was a joke!I wish i wouldnt have
>lost the draft because i would have loved to be in second place and you
>do that to me because one of us if not both of us would be spinning
>coming out of 4 would you have treid that on me.I would not of wrecked
>us on purpose but i would have went to the grass to get by you and if
>that means ruing the day for us then so be it .Thats BS racing I am one
>for a good race but let me make it clear i WILL NOT wreck anyone on
>purpose but if an accident happens because of someones bs driving i
>figure That Racing!! and will take a loss.
>> > Paul Carillon

>> PC/.... This is a ***message and should be private email.. What are
>> you
>> trying to prove with this PUBLIC MESSAGE..?????

>I will do it in private if you like but i will express my opion if i
>disagree with it when it is posted here ... this is the American way and
>i believe we are still a free country!I am not bad mouthing you just
>stating some information as how I know it to be

>One other thing about Huggy at Michigan last monday.. I talked with
>someone who told me they had been on the track for 4 laps when they
>passed Huggy coming out of the pits and they were several seconds back
>but Huggy caught them on the front stretch and followed them thru turns
>1&2 and then preceded to pass them with no problem ..like the were
>sitting still.I cannot figure how 2 cars with the same gearing and they
>dont accelerate the same.BUT Dont give me this BS that they caught a
>draft because you have one car on warm tires and one on cold and they
>exited that corner with a good run.It is just not possiblke in MY MIND
>for this to happen.. not with equal setups.Now if they ran a few laps
>together then this happened then ok but not with one just exiting the
>pits.This is my opinion and i am entilted to it!

>Paul Carillon

>BTW We can continue this in Private if you would like :)

John Wallac

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by John Wallac » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00



position.

So let's get this straight. Just because you haven't got the setup, talent,
smarts, or whatever it takes to get past, it's quite acceptable to bump
someone and probably spin them out of the race?

IMO that sort of racing should get you a couple of race ban under NRO. It
is simply unfair to ruin someone else's good racing just because you are
frustrated and cannot pass. That sort of driving only ends in feuds, and
believe me if you did that to me then the next time I was a lap down and
you were in first about to lap me, you better be reeeeaaaaaaal careful in
case I accidentally slide high and put you in the wall. Hey, "racing
incident".

In that situation it sounds like Don had got himself track position by
better strategy or whatever. There's nothing wrong with that and it is up
to you to find a way past - legally. There is no obligation on Don
whatsoever to "help you".

Cheers!
John

Mike Radl

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Mike Radl » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00




>> It also amazes me ,even though i wasnt there but i
>> > know many of the drivers who were there last week including
>> > yourself,that everyone with the ace setup qualified somewhere in the 184
>> > range except your boy Huggins who qualified in the 186 range.

>> Yes.. and dont forget YOUR BOY Donny Lia qaulified right next to him at
>> 186.300  I wish now I had save that qual resuilts....  No... Most of
>> the people qualified in the 183's a couple in the 184's..

>Well for one Donnie is not my boy and my point exactly you have 2 guys
>over 186.3 and the rest of the feild are barely cracking 184.. now you
>know why i haave never trusted these guys in the first place.

I would NEVER defend RHUGGINS as I know he has cheated. It's not so
much his average speed, it's his rate of acceleration that really gives
him away (I'm curious to see if he's refined his system in this area).

Anyway, just to be fair I thought I'd say that I know 186+ qualifying
with ACE setup (70 degrees, no wind and no TP or fuel changes etc...)
can be done on Multi.exe at Michigan without warp. I've done it while
doing simulated qual runs offline and I know there's some guys out there
who can drive alot better than I.


Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

John Walla

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by John Walla » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00



Being in Europe I don't see NASCAR and am not au-fait with the rules.
I don't believe deliberate ramming is part of the rules. Accidental
contact probably is let by, but deliberate thumping out of the way? I
don't think so.

In F1 the blue flag is shown when the leader comes up to LAP someone,
not when he is being pressured by the second place guy.

No, it comes down to cheating. A "friendly little bump" is psychology
and may unsettle someone enough to make a mistake - I believe Don is a
better driver than that. Thumping someone enough to throw them offline
may be part of racing, but it's also part of cheating.

Well, the next time you bump me out of the lead you may need to do
just that. Until then this is purely hypothetical on my part.

That's totally beside the point. It may be possible but that doesn't
mean it's legal. Now if you are one point behind me in a league I
could quite easily start driving the wrong way and just whack you out
of the race. Hey, racing incident, and it's possible in an NRO race.
That does not mean it's right.

There we agree to differ. Anyone who needs to barge in order to pass
is a poor racer indeed and should go back to hotlapping all on their
lonesome. Until they learn racecraft they're not fit to share a track
with those more gifted than themselves.

Cheers!
John

Robert Johnso

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Robert Johnso » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00


k>...



>> Paul the next time Don starts that blocking ***during the whole race
do
>> what i do to blockers bump their asses a tad in the turns or going into
>> the turns and they'll slide up.
>So let's get this straight. Just because you haven't got the setup,
talent,
>smarts, or whatever it takes to get past, it's quite acceptable to bump
>someone and probably spin them out of the race?
>IMO that sort of racing should get you a couple of race ban under NRO. It
>is simply unfair to ruin someone else's good racing just because you are
>frustrated and cannot pass.

While the above does seem like a " A & B " conversation, I just can't " C "
my way out of commenting on it.  I don't know what type of racing you watch
John, but the above scenario accurately depicts the way things are done in
NASCAR racing.  Did you miss Bristol or something?  Remember Jeff Gordan
and Rusty?  And all Rusty said was " that's racing ".  And you want to bann
the man for doing something in a SIM that is perfectly legal in real life.
I seriously hope that it doesn't happen.  

Perhaps you are an F1 fan, where the officials wear out that blue flag when
someone is seen as " slowing up the leader ".  That is, IMO, where the BS
comes in.  If he is so fast, why can't he pass with out the aid of the
officials? And if he is so fast in Nascar, how did the guy get close enough
to bump him in the first place.   In NASCAR, a friendly little bump in the
rear is usually enough to get your point across.   I guess it all comes
down to " Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. "

Since you have just made it plain that if you are bumped, or if you think
you were treated unfairly, you intend to crash out the offending driver,
perhaps it is you that should be banned?  And now, before you actually
***up someones racing.

I don't know how he got in front, or really care how he stays there.   But
he knows the way things are in Nascar, he watches the races, and for all he
knows Jeff may be in the same NRO race he is.  Now, if Jeff will bump
someone in a real car, don't you think he will bump him in a virtual car?
And how many Jeff Gordan wannabes do you think there will be in the NRO?
Quite a few I'll bet.

As to helping him, well no, he isn't obliged to.  But if the offending
party has altered his racing line for the sole purpose of blocking the
others, then he is just asking for a little " love tap ".

David Spark

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by David Spark » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00


>NASCAR does not allow FLAGRANT trading of paint between cars. they black
>flag people and fine them for it, HOWEVER  rubbing the competition is
>going to happen , its part of stock car racing, without contact and
>tight competition like that NASCAR racing would be as lame as open wheel
>racing. the fact is, if you cant take a bump and keep right on going you
>aren't gonna be very happy in a NASCAR setting...

This is true for real racing. Unfortunately, in online racing, that little
bump could turn into major damage for the car you bumped. The problem is
that your computer and his computer don't always agree on where your cars
are and how fast they are going. So while you might think you just gave him
a little 1 MPH "love tap", his computer might see it as a 20 MPH impact.

We do not allow bumping in the Late Night series for this reason. Some day
when we have a reliable, high bandwidth, low-latency communication network,
we'll be able to race with the confidence that we are all seeing exactly
the same thing. Until then, I suggest you not bump other cars unless you
want to get flamed for wrecking someone.

You're just as much of a bigot as the F1 snobs. Part of the e***ment of
open-wheel racing is the fact that the slightest touch between the cars can
spell major disaster. It requires a degree of car control that most of us
can only dream about.

Racing is racing. It can be exciting whether its stock cars, F1, or
motorized wheelchairs. I love the commercial with Zanardi and Vasser racing
motorhomes at Michigan. Anyone up for doing a motorhome set for NASCAR 2?
;)

Dave Sparks
IWCCCARS Project: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Late Night League: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Hawaii Handle: davids

Bob Stanle

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by Bob Stanle » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00

I agree with Trent when it comes to real live racing about NASCAR being
a rubbin is racin sport. And I also agree that guys about to go a lap
down have every right to fight for thier position.  But on the other
hand David makes the most important point of all, when we race online,
its just not right to bump because you can never know how hard your bump
is going to be. Online racers HAVE to realize this. This IS NOT the real
world. I wish it was and I wish I could afford to drive a real NASCAR
but alas... I drive on Hawaii. I just hope that the NROS will adopt some
of the more common sense rules that apply to online racing but dont in
the real world. I'm sure you've made suggestions, right, David?

Regards,
Bob

--
Bob_Stanley
LightSpeed MotorSports  http://www.cfw.com/~aldhizer/lightspeed.html
INTERNET NASCAR Race Team
Divison of CFR

NASCAR, The Ultimate Contact Sport!

|D00D

2 - 3 MPH Error in REPLAY!!!!

by |D00D » Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:00:00

This makes no difference.  It IS possible to drive even 189.600 mph laps
(my personal best) at michigan.

Ok, here is how it is done.  You need a certain setup.  You HAVE to drive a
certain line at michigan, a LITTLE lower than the rest of the field, except
in the corners. . . almost reverse of what common sense tells you.  It
requires NO modification of the game or the .txt files (not that most
people would not know how anyways). . .

I am not about to post the setup itself, because I intend fully on
dominating the michigan race on NRO when it starts, however, you can view
the replay that I posted about 2 days ago to see the 189mph lap.  I WILL
give you a hint on the setup. . .

It is ALL in the camber settings.  Ignore the tire heat.  You will still be
able to go 35-42 laps without any tire change.  Adjust the camber settings
to get MAX speed in the corners, and again, totally ignore the tire heat.
Within 35 laps of a multiplayer race on kali, hawaii, or NRO, there will be
a caution anyways, and at 189mph, you will easily move up the field.  

Personally, I do not know if this is just a bug in the game, or some sort
of easter egg planted there by the warped minds at sierra/papy, but I guess
that does not matter.  The important thing is that it is possible to do. .
. it just requires some *backward thinking*, and a *little* skill (this
trick does not work on the other tracks. . . I have tried and failed
miserably).

Anyone with any questions regarding this please use one of the email
adresses below, not the autoreply adress. . .or post it on the NG.  

Now, has ANYONE managed to get a Taladega setup going that will run 195+mph
for LONG races, WITHOUT blowing the engine?  I would really like to see
that.....

NOD Racing



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