rec.autos.simulators

  I think CART's growing problems are that it's stuck in the philosophical
middle as far as promoting a series goes.  On one end of the scale you
have F1.  Like it or not, F1 has been a championship intended just as much
for engineers as it is for drivers.  On the other hand you have NASCAR.
The France family has done an excellent job of creating a series that
revolves almost entirely around the drivers.  Very little room for
technical innovation.  Then you have CART, which has always hovered in the
middle.  I think as F1 and NASCAR stretch this scale further in each
direction, it's making it harder and harder for CART to hang is
promotional hat on any specific thing.

Could anyone imagine saying to Jeremy Mayfield "Jeremy,

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Have yet to see one exciting IRL race, period.

IRL: Um, Boat I think, Arie...um, Goodyear? ....Cheever

CART: Unser, Andretti, Fittipalidi, Franchitti, Tracy, Gordon, Montoya,
Ferandez, deFerran, Papis, and on.

Gordon, Labonte, Labonte, Earnhardt, Burton, Burton, Martin, Jarret, um...

The only racing TARGET commercials I have ever see are CART based with the
Ganassi/Target racing team and Jimmy Vasser/MOntoya.  Dont know what you are
smoking.  Not to mention I've seen many more CART commercials than NASCAR of
late and heard them on the radio than NASCAR (in Chicago).  Theatres here
even have a 30 second CART commercial too.

So perhaps you just live where you dont get any form of media. :)

True, but it blends the best of both into one.  Its a driver's championship,
but its not so technicalogically backwards as NASCAR, but not so much an
engineer's championship as F1.  It has BOTH ovals and road courses so it
tests the skills of the drivers to win on a variety of tracks, it also tests
the teams in perparing cars for a variety of tracks.  Its got a longer
season than F1, but its not as long as drawn out as NASCAR is.

However, like F1, you can't go to your local Chevy or Ford dealer and buy
the car that your favorite driver's ride is based off either.  Big deal. :?

It is? Says who?  That may be YOUR opinion, but its not everyone's opinion.

Say what?  No, I don't think so.  Even if I don't like IRL, both it and CART
tightly control what can and can not be done with the cars and they come out
pretty even even given the number of different choices.  However, unlike
NASCAR who changes rules every couple weeks it sometime seems, CART doesn't
change unless its absolutely necessary for safety or performance reasons.

Uh, what?!  You aren't paying too much attention to CART lately are you?
Record number of DIFFERENT drivers are winning races this year.  The same
can't be said for NASCAR where its usually the same old drivers over and
over again winning.

Um, no.  Advertisting is done by NASCAR because they, like any other
business, wishes to promote their product.  They may have more money to blow
on advertisting than other forms of racing because they have more fans or
advertisting dollars, etc, but its not just because more people like NASCAR.

Mms.  CART cars are fast.  However, CART also limits the technology in use
by the manufacturers unlike F1 which often times goes to the extremes with
technology.

However, ROAD RACING is about it being hard to pass.  It takes skill to get
around a guy on a tight and twisty track so its more finese about how and
when and the battle leading up to the pass than say on an oval.

And your later comments may be true about F1, but they dont wash in CART
like they dont wash in NASCAR either.  How many times have we seen this and
last year both Franchitti and Tracy getting together with each other on
trakc, and they are teammates.

Please pull your head out.

        I really can't figure it out.  Except they hold about one
race/year/country and people like the festival of it all?

Chris, OTOH, thinks I'm totally hosed:

I said: >> The cars are more equal and the format leads to a lot of
close racing.

        Chris - On the competitive point.  This is where I think _you_
need to get real.  Check comparitive stats on number of different
winners, margains of victory (this is a big difference), number of
different leaders per race, numbers of lead changes, percentage of
cars finishing on the lead lap.  It ain't close.  You can reasonably
differ whether this is caused artificially by the NASCAR rules, such
as reliable low technology, yellow flags, and handicapping makes as
necessary.  However,  people seem to like it.  And most of  the lower
teams have pretty much the same hardware as Gordon/Martin/Jarrett.
CART may be close, but not that close.  NASCAR is totally about
drivers and teams, rather than technology.

        I do agree with you about road racing.  Any sim shows that
road racing is harder than ovals.  My favorite NASCAR races are the
road races.  And you are right that CART is head and shoulders above
F1.  I've attended all three in person.  CART in Denver  was
exceptional in putting on a good show.  Lots of support races and
allowed ordinary people to buy pit passes for access to the pits and
race teams.  But the NASCAR race at Richmond kept me rivetted to the
action the whole race.  The 1968 GP at Watkins Glen was fun. (I'm just
an old fart, Chris) And the 1990ish GP at Phoenix sucked big time, in
every regard.

                bob

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To some degree.  But it doesn't explain a stadium full of German GP fans
cheering an Irish and Finnish driver across the line.  Ferrari seems to
transcend boundaries.

Stephen

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Yeah, missed the Target again....  But, you see those commercials
mostly on ESPN, SVN, etc., and usually only during races (of any type).

The 1968 movie "Grand Prix" was a tremendous commercial success, still
watched today by race fans (even forgiving its technical / artistic
license).  F1 still did not benefit greatly in the US from that.  We'll
see if Stallone's movie makes a difference, but it will be a miracle if
it is any better than "Days of Thunder" in representing the sport.

Very, very true.  Same comparison applies when watching an F1 race on
Sunday, followed by almost any other kind of racing.  How exciting is
watching a WC race at Martinsville on TV?  It really is more fun to
watch when you are in the stands there, since TV can't convey the
competition or background action very well, and there sure isn't much
raw speed involved (there is a lot of speed for a track like that - a
champ car could probably not lap it much faster).

My point exactly.

True, but what about IRL at C***te, Atlanta, and Dover?  Nascar
truck race qualifying gets bigger crowds.  I don't count Homestead or
Indy as "Nascar tracks" because Nascar races are not their primary
venues, although pretty successful.

The whole thing is driven by television ratings - the networks are not
major risk-takers, so if something does not do well financially on the
first broadcast, they aren't real e***d about doing it again.
However, since they do continue to broadcast open-wheel racing, they
are making some money doing it - just not as much as the WC races.

The contracts will depend upon how much money CART/IRL can bring to the
broadcasters.  The Indy 500 is always a good investment, and that will
help.  Still, the networks are not competing for coverage quality or
they would not continue to use some of the announcers they do.  They
are only trying to compete with the other programs during the race time
slot.  That, of course, is why they will cut away to golf from racing
but not from baseball.

Terry

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Yeah, I was disappointed by Frentzen's comments also.  He has talent, he has a
'decent' car, and ANYTHING can happen to the leaders... Just ask Michael...

Eldred

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Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Duh!  ;o}

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