rec.autos.simulators

by **Chris Schlette** » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Yup, and looks like the first Chicago GP will have a full crowd too.

> I attend every Homestead CART race since it's opening (and the Miami Grand
> Prix before that while it was being built). I can tell you, the
attendance
> has only grown from what I have seen. Each year the lines for the food
get
> longer and longer :). I didn't see many open seats at all this past race.

> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Adam Zerlin
> GT Insider Webmaster
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> GT International Championship Organiser
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------

- Show quoted text -

> >It certainly was pretty crowded at the CART Portland race I attended
> >this year, and no less crowded than it was last year or the year before
> >that, perhaps even more crowded, so I think the road courses do fine
> >as far as attendance goes.

> >I think the crowds are small just at oval races, probably because they
> >have too many seats available and possibly also because, personally I
think
> >oval racing is less exciting overall than road course racing (no flames
> >please), I agree that this year we've seen some very exciting oval races,
> >but in general I don't think they are as exciting as road races.

> >Of course the fact that the IRL is classified as "open-wheel" racing, and
> >their general suckiness and low attendance reflects poorly on all
American
> >open-wheel racing, so I can see where people are getting worried.

> >I think the IRL and CART are both hurting due to the split and should
> >swallow their pride and find a way to work things out, just as long as
that
> >doesn't mean that CART would have to race more oval's than they already
do.

> >Hoping that American open-wheel racing can give the NASCAR boys a run
> >for their money in popularity one of these decades, just hope they don't
> >have to switch to ovals to do so.

> >Seeyas on the track.

> >--John (Joao) Silva

> >>>ESPN SportsCenter is concerned about open wheel racings low attendance
> and
> >>>popularity.

> >>Anybody that watched the IRL race from Dover wouldn't need a report to
> >>understand why they were concerned.
> >>Judging by the grandstands, there were more cars on the track than in
> >>the parking lot. <g>

> >>In all seriousness, for anyone that didn't see it, I'd estimate the
> >>grandstands were 85% vacant.

> >>Tim

by **Jay** » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00

A real shame... Because the IRL puts on some darned exciting racing, but as
you say with only a couple of famous drivers the IRL is hurting, but then
again so is cart...

Just ask yourself, how many IRL and/or CART drivers can you name?

Then ask yourself how many NASCAR drivers you can name?????

by **Jeff Murchison J** » Wed, 04 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I can name a lot more almost all the cart drivers. I can't even name one IRL
and maybe two or three NASCAR drivers. Hey and I even live in Atlanta :) so
I don't see your point.

--
Jeff Murchison JR
HTTP://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends

> A real shame... Because the IRL puts on some darned exciting racing, but
as
> you say with only a couple of famous drivers the IRL is hurting, but then
> again so is cart...

> Just ask yourself, how many IRL and/or CART drivers can you name?

> Then ask yourself how many NASCAR drivers you can name?????

> >I think the IRL is hurting for heroes.
> >Cart looks very well attended from what Ive seen.

by **EricZieg** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Greg, you are cordially welcome to mine. Even though I am a long-time fan of F1
(and what's left of it) my plans for the race do not include sending a penny to
either Tony George or Bernie Ecclestone. I will utilize whatever arcane
television rights that are granted to me by Bernie to view not only the race,
but also the empty seats surrounding it. And I will, as always, use a
combination of PIP and Mute to ignore the endless and repetitive commercials.
Note: I DO patronize the sponsors of CART and NASCAR to support these
series---F1 seems to have million$ of its own via Bernie.

Summary: By the time Tony George gets done presenting the relatively unknown
Formula One at The Brickyard, where virtual unknowns race similar-appearing
cars once a year and recognized Champions aren't allowed, the potential new
American open-wheel racing fan will be even more confused---and join the exodus
to Winston Cup. We all lose, except for Tony and Bernie via their hype.

Just my fifth of a dime,
Eric Ziegler

by **EricZieg** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

David Reimertz quoted:

By a quirk of fate, I was on a TWA flight on approach to Lambert during the
testing, and was watching the cars with great delight. I saw one go into the
wall, checked the time later, and it turned out to be CF. Sorry it happened,
but gee, I DID miss all three races that weekend while in Key West.

Eric Ziegler

by **Terry Welc** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Think about it - most of the public's ability to name famous
drivers is due to the amount of TV exposure they get. This is not just
the racing, but is much more the commercial publicity. You can't walk
into a supermarket without seeing a Martin or Labonte or Jarrett life-
size standup advertising some sponsoring product. The IRL guys have
only the Target and Firestone TV ads going for them. CART has no
commercial exposure at all that I have seen lately, and F1 is something
that most people know absolutely nothing about. Not to mention USAC,
WOL, etc.
Within the ranks of active racing fans there are lots of famous
drivers in many of the divisions. To the TV executives there are only
advertising opportunities and well-sponsored stars. This is what gets
communicated to the public. Perhaps with IRL or CART at Nascar ovals
it is too much to expect much attendance from traditional Nascar fans.
Heck, most Nascar fans don't even attend the racing divisions in Nascar
below Winston Cup - watch most truck races and see, or go to a Nascar
race featuring the 4-banger compacts. Bristol WC = 130K, truck = 20K,
compacts = 1K.

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by **Greg Cisk** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Thankfully I am not on a religious crusade. I just want to see
a formula one race. Thanks for your comments though it is
quite refreshing to see that I may get some good seats near
the pits :-)

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

>>>Do you think F1 will sell out Indy? That's a lot of seats...

>>I hope not the first year. I'm trying to get tickets :-)

>Greg, you are cordially welcome to mine. Even though I am a long-time fan
of F1
>(and what's left of it) my plans for the race do not include sending a
penny to
>either Tony George or Bernie Ecclestone. I will utilize whatever arcane
>television rights that are granted to me by Bernie to view not only the
race,
>but also the empty seats surrounding it. And I will, as always, use a
>combination of PIP and Mute to ignore the endless and repetitive
commercials.
>Note: I DO patronize the sponsors of CART and NASCAR to support these
>series---F1 seems to have million$ of its own via Bernie.

>Summary: By the time Tony George gets done presenting the relatively
unknown
>Formula One at The Brickyard, where virtual unknowns race similar-appearing
>cars once a year and recognized Champions aren't allowed, the potential new
>American open-wheel racing fan will be even more confused---and join the
exodus
>to Winston Cup. We all lose, except for Tony and Bernie via their hype.

>Just my fifth of a dime,
>Eric Ziegler

by **Adam Zerli** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

But, if you took away all those lifesize standups of the Nascar guys, and
then only allowed Nascar to do the same amount of advertising that CART is
doing, it wouldn't be as big as it is now. It's the advertising that mainly
did it for Nascar.

------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Zerlin
GT Insider Webmaster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com
------------------------------------------------------------
GT International Championship Organsier
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com
------------------------------------------------------------

> Think about it - most of the public's ability to name famous
>drivers is due to the amount of TV exposure they get. This is not just
>the racing, but is much more the commercial publicity. You can't walk
>into a supermarket without seeing a Martin or Labonte or Jarrett life-
>size standup advertising some sponsoring product. The IRL guys have
>only the Target and Firestone TV ads going for them. CART has no
>commercial exposure at all that I have seen lately, and F1 is something
>that most people know absolutely nothing about. Not to mention USAC,
>WOL, etc.
> Within the ranks of active racing fans there are lots of famous
>drivers in many of the divisions. To the TV executives there are only
>advertising opportunities and well-sponsored stars. This is what gets
>communicated to the public. Perhaps with IRL or CART at Nascar ovals
>it is too much to expect much attendance from traditional Nascar fans.
>Heck, most Nascar fans don't even attend the racing divisions in Nascar
>below Winston Cup - watch most truck races and see, or go to a Nascar
>race featuring the 4-banger compacts. Bristol WC = 130K, truck = 20K,
>compacts = 1K.

>> A real shame... Because the IRL puts on some darned exciting racing,
>but as
>> you say with only a couple of famous drivers the IRL is hurting, but
>then
>> again so is cart...

>> Just ask yourself, how many IRL and/or CART drivers can you name?

>> Then ask yourself how many NASCAR drivers you can name?????

>Sent via Deja.com http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

by **Terry Welc** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Right. That's where Bill France has excelled, and IRL and CART have
fallen down. These organizations don't have a clue on managing the PR
and advertising business, even though they have some really good
sponsors for the race teams. Of course, they can't do much advertising
for Kool or Marlboro - that lets out some of the big guys right away.
Apparently, most sponsors are not willing to feature low-attendance
racing drivers in their commercials. Catch 22.....

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by **Sky** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Nascar Drivers I can name: Gordon, Earnhardt.

CART Drivers I can name: Franchitti, Montoya, Andretti, Moore, Fittipaldi,
Kanaan, Papis, Blundell, Vasser, de Ferran, Fernandez, Herta, Castro-Neves.

Of course, I'm probably not typical :)

Sky

> A real shame... Because the IRL puts on some darned exciting racing, but
as
> you say with only a couple of famous drivers the IRL is hurting, but then
> again so is cart...

> Just ask yourself, how many IRL and/or CART drivers can you name?

> Then ask yourself how many NASCAR drivers you can name?????

> >I think the IRL is hurting for heroes.
> >Cart looks very well attended from what Ive seen.

by **Jon Van Ginneke** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

> Think about it - most of the public's ability to name famous
> drivers is due to the amount of TV exposure they get. This is not just
> the racing, but is much more the commercial publicity. You can't walk
> into a supermarket without seeing a Martin or Labonte or Jarrett life-
> size standup advertising some sponsoring product. The IRL guys have
> only the Target and Firestone TV ads going for them.

Target in the IRL?
IRL has those "You had to be there" commercials with Eddie "I'll kill you"
Cheever and Scott "Man I screwed up in 95" Goodyear.

You haven't seen the Montoya/Vasser/Zanardi Target commercials?
Or how about the Toyota commercials?
Or how about the Degree antiperspirant commercial?
Or the one with that one guy (don't know who the hell he is) sitting next
to an Eagle?

That's bound to change with the US GP and Sly Stallone's movie which will
be released just before it.

Superspeedway was a great film, but they never really said "This is CART,
watch us." During a senior field trip for my AP Chem class a little over 2
years ago my class went to see some movie about Yosemite at the OmniMax in
Chicago and there was a trailer for Superspeedway, but even though there
was only 1 other racing fan in my class every person except for the teacher
was disappointed that we saw the movie about Yosemite. :-)
CART has a product that I personally think if marketed right could blow
NASCAR away. The cars are 50mph faster, have much better acceleration, and
are much more agile...I guess only in US motorsports will fans enjoy
watching inferior cars; unlike any other sport. Just try watching a CART
race then watch a NASCAR race, those cars look like slugs inching down the
track compared to CART.

I really don't think CART races any NASCAR ovals. If you are gonna say the
2 Penske tracks are NASCAR ovals I think you are pretty off because just
before the split CART was packing 100,000 in Michigan....now it's probably
a third of that. California is a huge draw for CART...I know in the first
year the CART attendance was higher than the Winston Cup.

The problem here is terrible marketing from CART and terrible coverage from
ESPN and ABC. If the folks at ABC were so concerned about CART and the IRL
they would show more live races, have less commercials (to draw bigger TV
audiences, was you have them then you overdo the commercials), and treat it
equally as Winston Cup. The best thing that could happen is that once CART
and the IRL get back together they make major changes in management, and
then get TV contracts with multiple broadcasting companies like NASCAR so
that there is competition and each company will want to give better
coverage.

--

Jon Van Ginneken

"I try to do my best every day. If, at the end of the day
I know I did the best job I could do, I am satisfied."

--Alex Zanardi

by **The Mocke** » Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Well guys the old joke goes something like this.
Go to a Winston Cup race and the fans know the names of all the drivers, go
to a CART race and the drivers know the names of all the fans.

The Mocker

by **EricZieg** » Fri, 06 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>Nascar Drivers I can name: Gordon, Earnhardt.

You're missing a lot if you're unaware of*** Trickle :-)

Eric Ziegler

by **drbo..** » Fri, 06 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Driver recognition and advertising are results, not causes.
NASCAR is more popular than open wheel because the racing is better.
The cars are more equal and the format leads to a lot of close racing.
More drivers are known because more drivers have a chance of winning.
More advertising is done because more people like NASCAR.

Somebody posted about how much faster the CART cars are. F1
shows how this could actually hurt, by making car technology ***
and making passing hard. I happened to watch the F1 German GP.
Ridiculous. Could anyone imagine saying to Jeremy Mayfield "Jeremy,
please pull over and let Rusty win the race because he has a shot at
the Championship". Jeremy would think he'd been put on another
planet. And Frentzen, 3rd in the championship, saying he had no
chance of winning it in the press conference. Why? Because he
doesn't have a Ferrari or a McLaren? If a NASCAR driver said such an
uncompetitive thing, he'd be fired immediately.

bob

by **Terry Welc** » Fri, 06 Aug 1999 04:00:00

True, to some degree. How do you account for the rather extreme
popularity of F1 in Europe - even exceeding that of touring cars
there? The only reason that seems to fit is nationalism, just like
World Cup soccer. What do you think, bob?

> >But, if you took away all those lifesize standups of the Nascar
guys, and
> >then only allowed Nascar to do the same amount of advertising that
CART is
> >doing, it wouldn't be as big as it is now. It's the advertising
that mainly
> >did it for Nascar.

> Driver recognition and advertising are results, not causes.
> NASCAR is more popular than open wheel because the racing is better.
> The cars are more equal and the format leads to a lot of close racing.
> More drivers are known because more drivers have a chance of winning.
> More advertising is done because more people like NASCAR.

> Somebody posted about how much faster the CART cars are. F1
> shows how this could actually hurt, by making car technology ***
> and making passing hard. I happened to watch the F1 German GP.
> Ridiculous. Could anyone imagine saying to Jeremy Mayfield "Jeremy,
> please pull over and let Rusty win the race because he has a shot at
> the Championship". Jeremy would think he'd been put on another
> planet. And Frentzen, 3rd in the championship, saying he had no
> chance of winning it in the press conference. Why? Because he
> doesn't have a Ferrari or a McLaren? If a NASCAR driver said such an
> uncompetitive thing, he'd be fired immediately.

> bob

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rec.autos.simulators

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing

ESPN reports on low attendance for Open Wheel Racing