rec.autos.simulators

by **James Harmo** » Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:00:00

People seem to be missing the point of my original post. There is nothing
real about driving a computer in your living room, but there are tools you
can use to better compensate for this fact like force feedback wheels and
speedometers.

But consider this - if GPL had an average crappy physics system would we all
be playing it? Would we all know the nuances of the 1967 season and be
complaining about inaccuracies? What if Papyrus had chosen to do a Cart sim
with that amazing physics engine? We'd all be CART-heads. Let's be
thankful they didn't, but really, whatever sim gives me the best racing
experience I'll be playing. It's not about historical inaccuracies it's
about the racing.

Thanks

JH

by **David Kar** » Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Indeed, that is well put, and well-taken.
--DK

> What is the point of this examination into the pros, cons, rights, wrongs,
> goods, bads etcetera ad infinitum of the game anyway? Why the big attempt
> at navel-gazing and pondering whether it should be this, could be that or
> may be something else alltogether?

> The whole aspect of like or dislike, good or bad, game or simulation, is
> subjective anyway and what appeals to one may be completely out-of-whack
to
> another.

> Surely it is blatantly obvious that we are not all going to be satisfied
> 100% of the time simply because we are individuals. We simply need to
stop
> trying to be missionary-like in forcing personal messages of
dissatisfaction
> down other's throats and respect the fact that our likes and dislikes may
be
> vastly different.

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

> > People seem to be missing the point of my original post. There is
nothing
> > real about driving a computer in your living room, but there are tools
you
> > can use to better compensate for this fact like force feedback wheels
and
> > speedometers.

> > But consider this - if GPL had an average crappy physics system would we
> all
> > be playing it? Would we all know the nuances of the 1967 season and be
> > complaining about inaccuracies? What if Papyrus had chosen to do a Cart
> sim
> > with that amazing physics engine? We'd all be CART-heads. Let's be
> > thankful they didn't, but really, whatever sim gives me the best racing
> > experience I'll be playing. It's not about historical inaccuracies it's
> > about the racing.

> > Thanks

> > JH

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by **ymenar** » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

No, look at Spirit of speed 1937.

Yes, since a car is a car is a car. Many of us know how a vintage car races
from experience. Some even raced some of those cars (far or close to their
actual 67 specs). Vintage racing touch a sensible chord to many of us. It
brings back memories. It's important to a human being you know ?

Plus, the tracks were different in those days. The racing was different in
those days. The danger was really there. Would you really hop in one of
those cars and go full throttle at the Masta Kink at Spa ? I would not, Im
not that crazy. I would fear too much. That is something that is praised
alot in GPL.

Of course, we would all be.

Why ? We are all awaiting for it. 8 out of 9 titles Papyrus has been/will
be released are Nascar simulators. They will someday -do- a non stockcar
title no ? Let's hope it will be a CART one. Actually, I would not mind
anything else than stockcar. It's getting old.

The thing is.. the vintage Formula 1 of the year 1967 give us incredible
racing experiences. That's why it is that praised. It was probably the
best year for Papyrus to do, in terms of R&D for the new game engine, and
also to please the *** simracer. Who's average age is much higher than
many people think. The average *** simracer was probably living when
those cars hit the tracks.

Give us anything with the GPL game engine and we will praise it. Everything
else will be compared to it. It is -years- ahead of anything else. For
some reason, Papyrus decided to not push it into any of their new software
yet. It looks like the next Nascar stockcar title will have it, but who
actually knows.

We will know more during the Daytona weekend I guess. Probably some press
release by Sierra Sports about their 2000 line of product.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Olaf Thomas van Esse** » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

For me It's the period and quality that's counting for the sim. I'm a bit sick
of all those F1 sims (maybe except GP3) All looking a bit too much the same.
Give me more Legends stuff (F1, F2, F3, Nascar, Indy, 1937 but with GPL
quality, Le Mans, etc. Those where the days when driving was real driving
instead of doing figures)

> People seem to be missing the point of my original post. There is nothing
> real about driving a computer in your living room, but there are tools you
> can use to better compensate for this fact like force feedback wheels and
> speedometers.

> But consider this - if GPL had an average crappy physics system would we all
> be playing it? Would we all know the nuances of the 1967 season and be
> complaining about inaccuracies? What if Papyrus had chosen to do a Cart sim
> with that amazing physics engine? We'd all be CART-heads. Let's be
> thankful they didn't, but really, whatever sim gives me the best racing
> experience I'll be playing. It's not about historical inaccuracies it's
> about the racing.

> Thanks

> JH

by **Jalo** » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

If you need a speedometer to race GPL, your going about it all wrong, it's
not about numbers, it's about feeling. Being able to tell if your going to
fast into a corner, with just the feel of the car. Besides, why would you
want to look away from the road when you need to look at it the most?

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

What is the point of this examination into the pros, cons, rights, wrongs,
goods, bads etcetera ad infinitum of the game anyway? Why the big attempt
at navel-gazing and pondering whether it should be this, could be that or
may be something else alltogether?

The whole aspect of like or dislike, good or bad, game or simulation, is
subjective anyway and what appeals to one may be completely out-of-whack to
another.

Surely it is blatantly obvious that we are not all going to be satisfied
100% of the time simply because we are individuals. We simply need to stop
trying to be missionary-like in forcing personal messages of dissatisfaction
down other's throats and respect the fact that our likes and dislikes may be
vastly different.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

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by **Matthew Birger Knutse** » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

True, Jalo. For me, when racing, I only check the tacho for gear ratios, to
ensure that I am optimizing the power/torque of the engine, or not
over-revving. Maybe max speeds at straights. But it's all a business of
hearing. After a few laps in a car, you know about where you are RPM-wise.
And unless you're saving fuel or the car, you just go as fast as you can,
and look at the pitboard. "Speed isn't the issue" :-)
(ref here is not racing on the PC, but in a racecar)

Best

Matt

by **Aubre** » Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Ummm, that's what this newgroup is for. Or did I accidentally wander into
alt.parenting.***feeding again? We discuss racing sims, and
occasionally, their pros & cons. Wow, imagine that. Call it navel gazing
if you wish, but you don't have to read it if you don't like it, bigshot.

>What is the point of this examination into the pros, cons, rights, wrongs,
>goods, bads etcetera ad infinitum of the game anyway? Why the big attempt
>at navel-gazing and pondering whether it should be this, could be that or
>may be something else alltogether?

>The whole aspect of like or dislike, good or bad, game or simulation, is
>subjective anyway and what appeals to one may be completely out-of-whack to
>another.

>Surely it is blatantly obvious that we are not all going to be satisfied
>100% of the time simply because we are individuals. We simply need to stop
>trying to be missionary-like in forcing personal messages of
dissatisfaction
>down other's throats and respect the fact that our likes and dislikes may
be
>vastly different.

>--
>Regards,
>Bruce Kennewell,
>Canberra, Australia.
>---------------------------

>> People seem to be missing the point of my original post. There is
nothing
>> real about driving a computer in your living room, but there are tools
you
>> can use to better compensate for this fact like force feedback wheels and
>> speedometers.

>> But consider this - if GPL had an average crappy physics system would we
>all
>> be playing it? Would we all know the nuances of the 1967 season and be
>> complaining about inaccuracies? What if Papyrus had chosen to do a Cart
>sim
>> with that amazing physics engine? We'd all be CART-heads. Let's be
>> thankful they didn't, but really, whatever sim gives me the best racing
>> experience I'll be playing. It's not about historical inaccuracies it's
>> about the racing.

>> Thanks

>> JH

> -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
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>------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers

==-----

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I'll second those comments, Matt.
After a year with GPL, I can drive it on sound alone. Turn the sound off,
and I'm stuffed!!! But I only use the tacho to check for over-rev and
wouldn't need a speedo in a month of Sundays.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> >If you need a speedometer to race GPL, your going about it all wrong,
it's
> >not about numbers, it's about feeling. Being able to tell if your going
to
> >fast into a corner, with just the feel of the car. Besides, why would you
> >want to look away from the road when you need to look at it the most?

> True, Jalo. For me, when racing, I only check the tacho for gear ratios,
to
> ensure that I am optimizing the power/torque of the engine, or not
> over-revving. Maybe max speeds at straights. But it's all a business of
> hearing. After a few laps in a car, you know about where you are RPM-wise.
> And unless you're saving fuel or the car, you just go as fast as you can,
> and look at the pitboard. "Speed isn't the issue" :-)
> (ref here is not racing on the PC, but in a racecar)

> Best

> Matt

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by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Whoosh! Through to the 'keeper.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.

---------------------------

> Ummm, that's what this newgroup is for. Or did I accidentally wander into
> alt.parenting.***feeding again? We discuss racing sims, and
> occasionally, their pros & cons. Wow, imagine that. Call it navel gazing
> if you wish, but you don't have to read it if you don't like it, bigshot.

> >What is the point of this examination into the pros, cons, rights,
wrongs,
> >goods, bads etcetera ad infinitum of the game anyway? Why the big
attempt
> >at navel-gazing and pondering whether it should be this, could be that or
> >may be something else alltogether?

> >The whole aspect of like or dislike, good or bad, game or simulation, is
> >subjective anyway and what appeals to one may be completely out-of-whack
to
> >another.

> >Surely it is blatantly obvious that we are not all going to be satisfied
> >100% of the time simply because we are individuals. We simply need to
stop
> >trying to be missionary-like in forcing personal messages of
> dissatisfaction
> >down other's throats and respect the fact that our likes and dislikes may
> be
> >vastly different.

> >--
> >Regards,
> >Bruce Kennewell,
> >Canberra, Australia.
> >---------------------------

> >> People seem to be missing the point of my original post. There is
> nothing
> >> real about driving a computer in your living room, but there are tools
> you
> >> can use to better compensate for this fact like force feedback wheels
and
> >> speedometers.

> >> But consider this - if GPL had an average crappy physics system would
we
> >all
> >> be playing it? Would we all know the nuances of the 1967 season and be
> >> complaining about inaccuracies? What if Papyrus had chosen to do a
Cart
> >sim
> >> with that amazing physics engine? We'd all be CART-heads. Let's be
> >> thankful they didn't, but really, whatever sim gives me the best racing
> >> experience I'll be playing. It's not about historical inaccuracies
it's
> >> about the racing.

> >> Thanks

> >> JH

> > -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
> ==----------
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the
World!
> >------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers
> ==-----

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Eldre** » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

>If you need a speedometer to race GPL, your going about it all wrong, it's
>not about numbers, it's about feeling. Being able to tell if your going to
>fast into a corner, with just the feel of the car. Besides, why would you
>want to look away from the road when you need to look at it the most?

Ok, Jalo -
How do you GET that feeling, while staring at a 15" monitor, and using a non-ff
wheel? And you can *usually* read a speedo with peripheral vision(a digital
one, anyway).

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Mike Laske** » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Other forms of feedback are usually exaggerated for the computer game, eg
tyre feedback - a good physics engine coupled with a high framerate gives
sufficient feedback for most the time to understand what the virtual car is
doing.

As for digital readouts, I've got a large digital speed readout and an
analogue tacho on my motorbike and the only time I really get to look at
those are on the straight bits - if I've got time to look at them in a
corner then I'm obviously nowhere near the limit :)

Mike.

by **Jalo** » Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Well, let me ask you this, if you change your set up, and if you had based
your driving on actual car speed, how are you going to be able to tell if
the changes you made help, or hinder you? You will not be able to, it's all
about being able to "feel" the car. If you can't "feel" the car, you will
not enjoy GPL, thats all there is to it, in my opinion.

by **Obiwa** » Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Exactly where did he say that he was going to base his driving
on ONLY the speed readout ???
It's not about getting a DIFFERENT way of racing,but rather
to make a RICHER and more immersive (with more sensory input)
SIMULATION experience.
He has only explained that misinterpretation of his original post
about 10 times or so,so one would think that people would
start to get it by now,,,,,,,then of course it is up to them to decide
wether or not they consciously want to narrow their sensory input
to a more limited set than what's available in reality.

and how are you going to "feel" the car if you cant se which way it is aligned
and how it is moving in relation to to it's surroundings.......
yeah,yeah,by the "subtle cues" provided on the screen by papyrus.....
Personally,I would prefer some not-so-subtle clues that are available
to real-life drivers,such as knowing and seeing which way your car are headed.

--
Robert S?derberg

If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.

by **Eldre** » Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:00:00

writes:

I don't. I don't have ANY skill in modifying setups. I have to rely on other
peoples' setups, because the changes I make don't help me any....

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

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