rec.autos.simulators

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

JMB Duker

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

by JMB Duker » Wed, 25 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Hi,

Can someone tell me what the difference is between the different chassis,
engines and tyres in ICR2? What is the best combination of
chassis/engine/tyres, or does this all depend on your driving style?

In ICR2 you can also change the temperature of the track, but what is the
best temperature for hotlapping/racing?

Every help will be appreciated.
--
=========================================================
Pascal Dukers

"Reality is an illusion caused by lack of ***."

Eindhoven University of Technology
Faculty of Chemical Engineering
Laboratory of Inorganic Chemistry and Catalysis


=========================================================

John Daughert

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

by John Daughert » Fri, 27 Dec 1996 04:00:00


> Hi,

> Can someone tell me what the difference is between the different chassis,
> engines and tyres in ICR2? What is the best combination of
> chassis/engine/tyres, or does this all depend on your driving style?

> In ICR2 you can also change the temperature of the track, but what is the
> best temperature for hotlapping/racing?

> Every help will be appreciated.
> --
> =========================================================
> Pascal Dukers

> "Reality is an illusion caused by lack of ***."

> Eindhoven University of Technology
> Faculty of Chemical Engineering
> Laboratory of Inorganic Chemistry and Catalysis


> =========================================================

I think the best combo is Lola,Mercedes,Firestone. The cooler the temps
the faster the speed,that is except in Nascar1
Chuck Andersen X33

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

by Chuck Andersen X33 » Fri, 27 Dec 1996 04:00:00

: Hi,
: Can someone tell me what the difference is between the different chassis,
: engines and tyres in ICR2? What is the best combination of
: chassis/engine/tyres, or does this all depend on your driving style?
: In ICR2 you can also change the temperature of the track, but what is the
: best temperature for hotlapping/racing?
: Every help will be appreciated.
: --
: =========================================================
: Pascal Dukers

Following are some old posts I have with the author:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis/Engines/Tyres?
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USE FIRESTONES!!!  Longer life AND better grip.  Penske chassis has terrible
downforce/drag ratio...  Switching from a Reynard to a Lola immediately got me
another 1mph at Loudon...  Haven't done much engine testing though...


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis/Engines/Tyres?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess I'll throw in my two cents:
The Chassis, Engines, Tires performance values of the real Indycar World
Series are the basis for ICR II.  

This means:

Lola:  Just slightly the best overall chassis.  Best on ovals and
superspeedways, slight stability problems on some road courses that
affects tire wear and handling over the course of a fuel load.

Reynard:  Better than the Lola on road courses, confident, stable on
ovals but a little heavier and  produces more drag making the lola
overall, a better sled.

Penske:  I can't figure if Papy setup the Penske to be like the season
end Penske which finished EVER so close to Pruett at Michigan or the
Chassis that got beat by the Speedway tour bus at Indy.  Anyway.  
Penske:  Solid road course performer where it was easiest of all 3 to
handle wear tires over the whole season.  Sucked on ovals until very
late in the season (when the `96 undercarriage and suspension pieces
were added) because the car lost so much speed in turns and
experienced sometimes *** buffering/handling when in a pack of
cars and slipstreaming occurred.

Engines:

Ford:  Best overall.  Improved low-end torque over the `94 engine
package. Solid high-end power for ovals/superspeedways.  Prone to
more breakdowns than the other engines.(fact in ICR II and real
life*****)

Mercedes:  Weak at high ends compared to Honda and Ford.  Good low range
power and better power band than Ford.  VERY reliable.

Honda:  Okay at low ranges(coming out of turns on a road course)  Great,
Great top power for the ovals.  This engine is the choice of anyone
trying to set one lap records at Michgian etc...

Tires:

Goodyear:  Good grip.average durability.  Best on road courses.  not as
sticky as the Firestones.

Firestones:  Better on ovals than the Goodyears because of their better
grip and longer durability (Ask S. Pruett at Indy when he SKIPPED a tire
change during the race to get back a lap.  Damn impressive)  Firstones
were good on the road courses but they didn't get a win.  No real reason
why.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis/Engines/Tyres?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes.  The differences are not blatant, but they ARE there.

My *opinion* is that Goodyears are stickier for a while, but generally
Firestones wear better.  The Lola chassis tends to be much looser for a
given setup than Reynards and Penskes.  The Penske is slower at top speed
than the other chassis (important at Michigan, Indy, Talladega, probably
Pocono).  The Reynard seems to have somewhat better grip in the rear than
P or L.  The Honda seems to have the advantage at the top end of the
power band, and I am told that the Mercedes is better at lower speeds.
The Cosworth seems to be a good middle ground.

In general, my opinion are that driver ability, then setup are more important
than which chassis or engine you use, especially at road courses.  At the
superspeedways, it's easier to tell.

Brian Wong                              Systems Engineering Group (Servers)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis/Engines/Tyres?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reynard = Road Coarse chassis
Lola = oval chassis
Penske = racing chassis (IOW, not qualifing.  Penske has a WAY high
drag/downforce ratio.  This hurts in qualifying but it helps to stabilize the
rear end of the car during actual racing.  If you have a loose problem during
racing, consider a Penske.  Penskes are more forgiving of driving errors.)

Honda = great top end, great on ovals
Mercedes = great mid-range torque, great on street circuits
Ford = a balance between mid-range torque and top-end

Firestone = better race tire (more life)
Goodyear = possibly the better qualing tire (possibly more grip)

Hope this helps... ;-)

simrac..

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

by simrac.. » Fri, 27 Dec 1996 04:00:00


writes:

Hi Pascal,

Based on personal experience, as well as observations (posted hot-laps),
I've compiled a list of what I feel are the best combinations for various
tracks.  I also took into account the effects of weather, and of all the
latest patches.  Use the following as a guide, your mileage may vary (and
yes, driving style is an issue):

TRACK        CHASIS   ENGINE    Tire
====================================
Australia    Lola     Honda     Fire
Atlanta      Lola     Cosworth  Good
C***te    Lola     Honda     Good
Cleveland    Reynard  Honda     Fire
Darlington   Lola     Honda     Good
Detroit      Lola     Honda     Fire
Dover        Lola     Honda     Good
Elkhart      Reynard  Cosworth  Fire
Indy         Lola     Honda     Good
Laguna       Reynard  Cosworth  Fire
Long Beach   Lola     Honda     Fire
Loudon       Lola     Honda     Good
Martinsville Lola     Cosworth  Fire
Michigan     Lola     Honda     Good
Mid-Ohio     Reynard  Cosworth  Fire
Milwaukee    Lola     Honda     Good
Nazereth     Lola     Honda     Good
Phoenix      Lola     Honda     Good
Pocono       Lola     Cosworth  Good
Portland     Reynard  Cosworth  Good
Rockingham   Lola     Cosworth  Good
Sears        Lola     Cosworth  Fire
Talladega    Lola     Cosworth  Good
Toronto      Lola     Honda     Fire
Vancouver    Lola     Honda     Fire
Watkins      Lola     Cosworth  Good
Wilkes       Lola     Honda     Good

You'll notice that in "most" instances, the Lola/Honda combo works best on
ovals and street circuits (nimble chassis, quick acceleration), using
Goodyears (longer wear) for the ovals, and Firestones (better grip while
under braking) for the street.

For the road courses however, the Reynard/Cosworth/Firestone is the best
choice in most cases, giving you a stable chassis, an engine with some
"grunt" for coming off the corners, and tires that bite.

You'll also notice that nowhere do I mention the Penske chassis or the
Mercedes engine.  IMO, the Penske is a bad choice at any course (tell that
to Unser!!<g>), and I'm not quite sure why...Perhaps I (or anyone else)
has found a suitable setup.<g>

The Mercedes seems to be too fast (that's right, TOO FAST! boys and girls)
for the Super-speedways (Atlanta, Talladega, etc), mainly because at full
boost, it'll slip-n-slide (especially on worn tires).  Setting the boost
to '8' will allow a Cosworth-powered car to overtake it.  Also, this
engine just doesn't have the needed tourque for exiting the various turns
on a street/road course.

So, to wrap things up a bit:

  Lola - Nimble - tends to be too twitchy at road courses.
  Reynard - Stable - doesn't get around tight corners well.
  Penske - Dog - no more said.<g>

  Honda - Quick / Fast - lacks stop and go tourque.
  Cosworth - Fast / Tourque - tends to slow too much on short track ovals.
  Mercedes - Fast - lacks tourque and also suffers from slowing.

  Goodyear - Wear  - excellent combination of wear and grip.
  Firestone - Grip - excellent grip at the sacrafice of some wear.

Combinations:

  Ovals - Lola/Honda/Goodyear
  Street - Lola/Honda/Firestone
  Road - Reynard/Cosworth/Firestone

The colder the better (50)...This way, you can use softer compounds so
that you can get in one more lap before they burn-away.  ;)

Best Regards,

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing News - USA
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Michael E. Carv

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

by Michael E. Carv » Fri, 27 Dec 1996 04:00:00

: Hi,

: Can someone tell me what the difference is between the different chassis,
: engines and tyres in ICR2? What is the best combination of
: chassis/engine/tyres, or does this all depend on your driving style?

: In ICR2 you can also change the temperature of the track, but what is the
: best temperature for hotlapping/racing?

The answer to your 1st question is going in the upcoming IRCII FAQ:


----------------- copied post to r.a.s. --------------------
Goodyear tyres, the qualifying tire, firestone and goodyear are then
basically the same for race lastability.

Peneske is the race chassis for non-ovals, Reynard is quicker but
harder to drive {less stable rear end}.

Lola is the Oval chassis

Cosworth is the oval engine i think {12,800-13,000 best rev level}

Mercedes probably the best non-oval engine {12,800-13,000)

honda the best of both worlds engine i believe {12,800-13,200} red
lines at 13,500 but i believe it starts losing power after 13,200.
--------------- end copied post to r.a.s. ---------------------

The following comes from a post to AOL by Chad255786
---------------- copied post to AOL ---------------------------
The Chassis, Engines, Tires performance values of the real Indycar World
Series are the basis for ICR II.  

This means:

Lola:  Just slightly the best overall chassis.  Best on ovals and
superspeedways, slight stability problems on some road courses that
affects tire wear and handling over the course of a fuel load.

Reynard:  Better than the Lola on road courses, confident, stable on
ovals but a little heavier and  produces more drag making the lola
overall, a better sled.

Penske:  I can't figure if Papy setup the Penske to be like the season
end Penske which finished EVER so close to Pruett at Michigan or the
Chassis that got beat by the Speedway tour bus at Indy.  Anyway.  
Penske:  Solid road course performer where it was easiest of all 3 to
handle/ wear tires over the whole season.  Sucked on ovals until very
late in the season (when the `96 undercarriage and suspension pieces
were added) because the car lost so much speed in turns and experienced
sometimes *** buffering/handling when in a pack of cars and
slipstreaming occurred.

Engines:

Ford:  Best overall.  Improved low-end torque over the `94 engine
package.  Solid high-end power for ovals/superspeedways.  Prone to more
breakdowns than the other engines.(fact in ICR II and real life*****)

Mercedes:  Weak at high ends compared to Honda and Ford.  Good low range
power and better power band than Ford.  VERY reliable.

Honda:  Okay at low ranges(coming out of turns on a road course)  Great,
Great top power for the ovals.  This engine is the choice of anyone
trying to set one lap records at Michgian etc...

Tires:

Goodyear:  Good grip.average durability.  Best on road courses.  not as
sticky as the Firestones.

Firestones:  Better on ovals than the Goodyears because of their better
grip and longer durability (Ask S. Pruett at Indy when he SKIPPED a tire
change during the race to get back a lap.  Damn impressive)  Firstones
were good on the road courses but they didn't get a win.  No real reason
why.

SO:  These are the facts relating to the `95 season.  I have it on good
authority (tech guy at Papy explained this when I call their office
recently) that these are the patterns the game will emulate.  
--------------------- end copied post to AOL ----------------------

One Caveat:  If I remember correctly (can't find a post to comfirm it),
ICR2 tied the "redline" limit of the engines to the chassis not to what
engine is in the car.  Can anyone confirm this?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Michael Bar

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

by Michael Bar » Sun, 29 Dec 1996 04:00:00


> Hi,

> Can someone tell me what the difference is between the different chassis,
> engines and tyres in ICR2? What is the best combination of
> chassis/engine/tyres, or does this all depend on your driving style?

> In ICR2 you can also change the temperature of the track, but what is the
> best temperature for hotlapping/racing?

> Every help will be appreciated.
> --
> =========================================================
> Pascal Dukers

Cooler temps with no wind will result in faster lap times.  The Reynard
is the best all around chasis.  The Lola is better for Ovals and
speedways, because it has less drag.  However, it is less stable than
the Reynard and spins easier.  The Penske is a dog. The Mercedes has the
best high end, but can be a gas hog on road courses, especially street
circuits.  The Cosworth has almost as good a high end, and gets through
the midrange quicker, with better fuel economy.  The Honda is sluggish
in the low and midrange, and the weakest high end, but it "comes back"
quicker in 5th and 6th gear, making it ideal for speedways.  The
firestones seem a little stickier than the goodyears, but don't wear as
well if you have a bad setup.

Mike

Michael Bar

ICR2: Chassis/Engines/Tyres and Temperature

by Michael Bar » Mon, 30 Dec 1996 04:00:00


> Hi,

> Can someone tell me what the difference is between the different chassis,
> engines and tyres in ICR2? What is the best combination of
> chassis/engine/tyres, or does this all depend on your driving style?

> In ICR2 you can also change the temperature of the track, but what is the
> best temperature for hotlapping/racing?

> Every help will be appreciated.
> --
> =========================================================
> Pascal Dukers

Cooler temps with no wind will result in faster lap times.  The Reynard
is the best all around chasis.  The Lola is better for Ovals and
speedways, because it has less drag.  However, it is less stable than
the Reynard and spins easier.  The Penske is a dog. The Mercedes has the
best high end, but can be a gas hog on road courses, especially street
circuits.  The Cosworth has almost as good a high end, and gets through
the midrange quicker, with better fuel economy.  The Honda is sluggish
in the low and midrange, and the weakest high end, but it "comes back"
quicker in 5th and 6th gear, making it ideal for speedways.  The
firestones seem a little stickier than the goodyears, but don't wear as
well if you have a bad setup.

Mike


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