rec.autos.simulators

I'm sick of Papys AI

Eldre

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Eldre » Sun, 04 Jul 1999 04:00:00



>What about Surtees, will he still be there, that "/$%?&? of a recless
>driver...

>=:-D

That's funny - There's a program with Surtees on Speedvision right now...

__

Put your message in a modem, and throw it in the ***-sea...
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Christer Andersso

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Christer Andersso » Sun, 04 Jul 1999 04:00:00

If you could improve them, what would you improve?

/Christer


> Naa, the AI in GPL is good AND difficult.

Remco Moe

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Remco Moe » Sun, 04 Jul 1999 04:00:00


>If I could improve them, i'd have them learn where I drive, and kinda drive
>EXACTLY like i do, but that's kinda impossible

Err, didn't you want to IMPROVE them? <g>

Remco

Tim Wheatle

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Tim Wheatle » Mon, 05 Jul 1999 04:00:00

If I could improve them, i'd have them learn where I drive, and kinda drive
EXACTLY like i do, but that's kinda impossible
5th Docto

I'm sick of Papys AI

by 5th Docto » Mon, 05 Jul 1999 04:00:00

yeah, but would you give them squishy balls for their brake pedals?:]


Christer Andersso

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Christer Andersso » Mon, 05 Jul 1999 04:00:00

That's actually an idea that has been thrown around here at RAS. A
feature where you do a couple of starts and a couple of laps, and the
sim records how you drive and then let the AI drive like you do; same
racing line, same braking points, same corner speed, same acceleration
and same top speed. It's not that hard to implement actually, and I
should know :o). If you then could save this behaviour you could race
other peoples recorded driving.

/Christer


> If I could improve them, i'd have them learn where I drive, and kinda drive
> EXACTLY like i do, but that's kinda impossible

--
http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times,
cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).
Neil Rain

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Neil Rain » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00


> That's actually an idea that has been thrown around here at RAS. A
> feature where you do a couple of starts and a couple of laps, and the
> sim records how you drive and then let the AI drive like you do; same
> racing line, same braking points, same corner speed, same acceleration
> and same top speed. It's not that hard to implement actually, and I
> should know :o). If you then could save this behaviour you could race
> other peoples recorded driving.

Yes, a "ghost" mode would be good for hotlapping, but this isn't the
same as racing against the AI - presumably in ghost mode the cars would
go through each other so they couldn't collide.

"Proper" racing is different - you need to make a pass by outbraking or
out-accelerating the other car, with due consideration of how to avoid a
collision but force the other driver off his line.

The biggest problem I find with the AI is that they stick religiously to
the racing line, even if you've got inside them they have no problems
with hitting your rear wheel with their front as they turn in, even
though they could easily avoid a collision by moving slightly off-line.

It seems as though the only avoiding action they ever take is to slow
down if you've got right in front of them (and sometimes they don't even
manage that!).

I suppose it just makes it even more of a challenge to make a clean
pass, but it is irritating when you're challenging for a high place and
then get relegated right to the back when it's all their fault!

Maybe it's asking too much to expect the AI to behave like human drivers
anyway - I guess one of the attractions is that they're pretty much
predictable so you can measure your performance against them.

Christer Andersso

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Christer Andersso » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00

No, Neil, the ghost idea is another idea. This idea is just as racing
with the AI, but the AI drive your racing line instead of a guessed
racing line constructed by the developers.

I think the AI in GPL could have been more true to the racing era of
the sixties, hence driving much more like gentlemen :o).

/Christer



> > That's actually an idea that has been thrown around here at RAS. A
> > feature where you do a couple of starts and a couple of laps, and the
> > sim records how you drive and then let the AI drive like you do; same
> > racing line, same braking points, same corner speed, same acceleration
> > and same top speed. It's not that hard to implement actually, and I
> > should know :o). If you then could save this behaviour you could race
> > other peoples recorded driving.

> Yes, a "ghost" mode would be good for hotlapping, but this isn't the
> same as racing against the AI - presumably in ghost mode the cars would
> go through each other so they couldn't collide.

> "Proper" racing is different - you need to make a pass by outbraking or
> out-accelerating the other car, with due consideration of how to avoid a
> collision but force the other driver off his line.

> The biggest problem I find with the AI is that they stick religiously to
> the racing line, even if you've got inside them they have no problems
> with hitting your rear wheel with their front as they turn in, even
> though they could easily avoid a collision by moving slightly off-line.

> It seems as though the only avoiding action they ever take is to slow
> down if you've got right in front of them (and sometimes they don't even
> manage that!).

> I suppose it just makes it even more of a challenge to make a clean
> pass, but it is irritating when you're challenging for a high place and
> then get relegated right to the back when it's all their fault!

> Maybe it's asking too much to expect the AI to behave like human drivers
> anyway - I guess one of the attractions is that they're pretty much
> predictable so you can measure your performance against them.

--
http://home.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times,
cause noone has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o)).
Neil Rain

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Neil Rain » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00


> No, Neil, the ghost idea is another idea. This idea is just as racing
> with the AI, but the AI drive your racing line instead of a guessed
> racing line constructed by the developers.

Touche!  Sorry, I didn't mean to be patronising with my post!

Not sure how the AI will work out what my "average" line is after a few
laps though - I've never driven the same line on any two laps yet!

Maybe if they copy your line from the lap before it would result in some
interesting tactics for working out how to pass them - just go wide at a
certain point then try to close up on them for the same spot on the next
lap (hehe).

I'll second that!  "My line, I think, old chap!"  ;-)

EXCHANGE:HAL02:HQ

I'm sick of Papys AI

by EXCHANGE:HAL02:HQ » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00


> The biggest problem I find with the AI is that they stick religiously to
> the racing line, even if you've got inside them they have no problems
> with hitting your rear wheel with their front as they turn in, even
> though they could easily avoid a collision by moving slightly off-line.

I've actually found the AI to be the most forgiving of any racing sim
out there. I've seem them run off the track onto the grass to avoid me
sometimes :-) They do take account of the fact you're there, and do give
way if you're ahead of them.

If I start in the middle of the pack at Kyalami, 8/10 times I'll get
taken out by someone running into the back of me on the first corner as
they seem to brake later than me and slow down quicker.

I find it annoying that they won't give way in qualifying when they're
on an outlap - I must be too used to considerate human drivers on VROC
:-)

Hopefully GPaL will make it easy to tweak the chances of a mistake
easily

        Paul
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Nortel, London Road, Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA

Neil Rain

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Neil Rain » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00



> > The biggest problem I find with the AI is that they stick religiously to
> > the racing line, even if you've got inside them they have no problems
> > with hitting your rear wheel with their front as they turn in, even
> > though they could easily avoid a collision by moving slightly off-line.

> I've actually found the AI to be the most forgiving of any racing sim
> out there. I've seem them run off the track onto the grass to avoid me
> sometimes :-) They do take account of the fact you're there, and do give
> way if you're ahead of them.

Yes, I seem to remember "muscling" them off at certain points in the
past.

Maybe they just take me out when they've decided to make a "human
error", ie. not quite notice that if they turn in their front wheel will
just clip the back of my rear wheel.

It does seem to depend quite heavily on which part of which circuit
they're on - I guess there must be some "per-track" information that
tells them about where it's OK to move off the racing line.

Perhaps that's why they almost never overtake each other at Brands Hatch
- if one of them breaks down and tools round for a few laps, you end up
with a great long line of them with absolutely no sign of any of them
wanting to overtake.

Neil Rain

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Neil Rain » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00



> > The biggest problem I find with the AI is that they stick religiously to
> > the racing line, even if you've got inside them they have no problems
> > with hitting your rear wheel with their front as they turn in, even
> > though they could easily avoid a collision by moving slightly off-line.

> I've actually found the AI to be the most forgiving of any racing sim
> out there. I've seem them run off the track onto the grass to avoid me
> sometimes :-) They do take account of the fact you're there, and do give
> way if you're ahead of them.

Have you tried novice mode in MGPRS2?

At Monaco you can just barge ahead of them whenever you feel like it and
they will back off, which is a tad unrealistic given how difficult it
really is to overtake at this circuit.

On the other hand they do sometimes bash straight into the back of you
if you get held up by traffic ahead!

Christer Andersso

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Christer Andersso » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Well, you inspired me :o).

/Christer


> > I think the AI in GPL could have been more true to the racing era of
> > the sixties, hence driving much more like gentlemen :o).

> I'll second that!  "My line, I think, old chap!"  ;-)

Jack Ramb

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Jack Ramb » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00

It will indeed. The first release, which you should see very shortly, will
provide controls for AI speed, AI diversity, number of AI drivers, and AI
car assignments. I plan to include the driver-specific AI settings, and the
more obscure AI controls, such as the error-probability control that you
describe, Paul, in subsequent versions.

Jack Rambo
www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

Andre Warrin

I'm sick of Papys AI

by Andre Warrin » Tue, 06 Jul 1999 04:00:00

Jack,

I appreciate what you are doing very much, but please stop saying 'you
will see it very shortly', you've been saying that for a long time
now. Waiting for GPaL and the 1.1 patch it driving me nuts, and these
kind of words from you make me having some sleepless nights to
come....
Please stop doing this to me!

Andre


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