rec.autos.simulators

by **Jason Moy** » Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:07:59

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:00:32 +0100, "Joachim Trensz"

>Was that you or the AI? The fastest _I_ get in Q is around 50s.

Hm, I just loaded the game up and ran 2 Q attempts with realistic
weather enabled and 1 with 70/clear/nowind:. This is using the
'qualify' setup and not the 'fast' setup that you'd be using in a
fixed online race.

Session 1:

Weather - 49F Cloudy Wind NE 9mph
Pole Time/Speed - 45.952/195.857
Human Time/Speed - 13th - 46.224/194.704

Session 2:

Weather - 64F Cloudy Wind NE 16mph
Pole Time/Speed - 46.269/194.515
Human Time/Speed - 9th - 46.461/193.711

Session 3:

Weather - 70F Clear No Wind
Pole Time/Speed - 47.290/190.315
Human Time/Speed - 4th - 47.676/188.774

I can't find info on the weather from the 10th when qualifying
happened this year (it was scheduled for the 9th but rained out), but
I believe it was cold and overcast.

Jason

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:23:17

Strange, you're 3 to 4 seconds faster than me. Could it be that I'm trying
Dega and you're trying Tona? :-)

I'll check this tomorrow, right now I'm too tired and need to go to sleep.
Cya tomorrow.

Achim

by **Jason Moy** » Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:50:03

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:23:17 +0100, "Joachim Trensz"

>Strange, you're 3 to 4 seconds faster than me. Could it be that I'm trying
>Dega and you're trying Tona? :-)

Doh. =)

Jason

by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:13:55

> >Ah, that would also explain why the AI's laps at the Glen are 2
> >seconds faster than the current track record. =)

> Played with the AI a bit, seems like 97% keeps the speeds more in line
> with real life at Daytona and the Glen (may have to bump up their qual
> ability a bit at the plate tracks but haven't tested enough yet). The
> AI is still fiendish at 97%, and I'm realizing now that one of the big
> improvements, at least at Daytona, is that they'll fight and block to
> keep the low line.

> Jason

I noticed you said in another post that you are finding it hard to keep the
low line at
Daytona due to the high corner speeds. I said in another thread that if
people are finding this a problem it must be controller related. I posted a
replay here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ of part of a race against
the AI at 101% at 70 degrees where I drove the low, high, and middle line a
bit after moving up to first with the fast setup with no problem. That's why
I thought it had to be
controller related if drivers I knew were excellent were finding the fast
setup to push so bad. Pete S. from here at ras couldn't duplicate what he
saw in the replay
but
then on Sat. in the chat room before the (almost) RASCAR race he said he
switched out the pots in his wheel and found that 100k pots worked the best
and he didn't find the fast setup to push anymore. 50k and 250k didn't feel
good to him.

What type of pots do you have in your wheel?

I posted a second replay today with some laps from a race against the AI at
105% with the fast setup at 60 degrees where I move
from 43rd to 35th over 4 laps, and then move to the high line and middle
line for a few laps to show how the fast setup is still stable at those
speeds on any line. The replay is called DaytFast105. The fast setup is
still good
against the AI at that level and as you can see there is no push at all even
though I'm entering the turns at 200mph in a pack, 199 on the outside line,
and exiting T4 at 198. No problem at all
holding the low line even at the increased corner speeds.

I really think that people who are good drivers and are still having trouble
with the fast setup seeming to push are doing so because of the type of pots
they have in their wheel. Maybe Pete will read this and add his thoughts.

David G Fisher

by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:54:26

Great stuff David. Do you have any replays of info. about your experiences
at Michigan and California using the default fast set-up? If the AI is at
100%, where can you place in practise in a full field? Do you find the AI
harder or easier at one or the other of these two tracks? I find the AI can
be matched or beaten fairly easily at Tally at 100% with the fast set-up.
You obviously find the same. Wondering what your thoughts are (or what
replays will show) at Mich. and Calif.

Thanks,

Marc

> > >Ah, that would also explain why the AI's laps at the Glen are 2
> > >seconds faster than the current track record. =)

> > Played with the AI a bit, seems like 97% keeps the speeds more in line
> > with real life at Daytona and the Glen (may have to bump up their qual
> > ability a bit at the plate tracks but haven't tested enough yet). The
> > AI is still fiendish at 97%, and I'm realizing now that one of the big
> > improvements, at least at Daytona, is that they'll fight and block to
> > keep the low line.

> > Jason

> I noticed you said in another post that you are finding it hard to keep
the
> low line at
> Daytona due to the high corner speeds. I said in another thread that if
> people are finding this a problem it must be controller related. I posted
a
> replay here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ of part of a race
against
> the AI at 101% at 70 degrees where I drove the low, high, and middle line
a
> bit after moving up to first with the fast setup with no problem. That's
why
> I thought it had to be
> controller related if drivers I knew were excellent were finding the fast
> setup to push so bad. Pete S. from here at ras couldn't duplicate what he
> saw in the replay
> but
> then on Sat. in the chat room before the (almost) RASCAR race he said he
> switched out the pots in his wheel and found that 100k pots worked the
best
> and he didn't find the fast setup to push anymore. 50k and 250k didn't
feel
> good to him.

> What type of pots do you have in your wheel?

> I posted a second replay today with some laps from a race against the AI
at
> 105% with the fast setup at 60 degrees where I move
> from 43rd to 35th over 4 laps, and then move to the high line and middle
> line for a few laps to show how the fast setup is still stable at those
> speeds on any line. The replay is called DaytFast105. The fast setup is
> still good
> against the AI at that level and as you can see there is no push at all
even
> though I'm entering the turns at 200mph in a pack, 199 on the outside
line,
> and exiting T4 at 198. No problem at all
> holding the low line even at the increased corner speeds.

> I really think that people who are good drivers and are still having
trouble
> with the fast setup seeming to push are doing so because of the type of
pots
> they have in their wheel. Maybe Pete will read this and add his thoughts.

> David G Fisher

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:46:58

lol - I'm getting old :-)

Achim

> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:23:17 +0100, "Joachim Trensz"

> >Strange, you're 3 to 4 seconds faster than me. Could it be that I'm
trying
> >Dega and you're trying Tona? :-)

> Doh. =)

> Jason

by **Larr** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 03:44:33

Yeah, the track files have been modied :)

Under normal circumstances, you'll never see anywhere near 210.

Larry

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 05:30:54

>Yeah, the track files have been modied :)

>Under normal circumstances, you'll never see anywhere near 210.

Hm, 50 degrees and cloudy I have no problems getting close to 210 in
the draft, and pulling average speeds of 195+ by myself.

I mean, c'mon, even at 70 degrees clear no wind the qualifying speeds
are faster than the race speeds in real life. That's ***ed up.

Jason

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:09:08

>Yeah, the track files have been modied :)

>Under normal circumstances, you'll never see anywhere near 210.

Hm, check out these replays. Both were taken with "realistic weather"
turned on (believe temperatures were around 50 and it was cloudy -
approximately the same weather that was had during qualifying this
year). AI is set to 100%. Here's a 194mph qual lap where I lost a
ton of time sliding into turn 1. The AI took the pole at 196.4mph:

http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/DaytonaQual.rpy

Here's me after dropping 20 spots on the second lap (after drifting
high in turns 3/4 while trying to keep my speed over 200), attempting
to take turn 1 at 205mph. Is this a controller problem? I would
guess no since I'm using full lock and the right front tire is unable
to grip the track anymore, but I honestly have no idea:

http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/Daytona205.rpy

Notice the lead cars hold their line perfectly without dipping below
200mph, after just completing a 203-204mph lap (on their second lap -
I quit after clipping that replay but I'm guessing the third lap was a
scorcher).

Jason

by **Steve Blankenshi** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:09:38

> >Yeah, the track files have been modied :)

> >Under normal circumstances, you'll never see anywhere near 210.

> Hm, 50 degrees and cloudy I have no problems getting close to 210 in
> the draft, and pulling average speeds of 195+ by myself.

> I mean, c'mon, even at 70 degrees clear no wind the qualifying speeds
> are faster than the race speeds in real life. That's ***ed up.

> Jason

Hmmmm - I just gave it a try with cloudy, 50 degrees and no wind, with the
AI at 100%. I Q'ed 6th with a 46.2 (pole was 45.9), which mirrors your
earlier post in similar conditions. In the race the most I saw was 206,
with the AI hitting a high of 204. No 210's in sight. You have a tailwind
pushing your bunch to hit those speeds, maybe?

SB

Way faster than real life though, you're correct. Bit of a surprise how
much that's the case in NR2003.

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:56:45

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:09:38 -0500, "Steve Blankenship"

>Hmmmm - I just gave it a try with cloudy, 50 degrees and no wind, with the
>AI at 100%. I Q'ed 6th with a 46.2 (pole was 45.9), which mirrors your
>earlier post in similar conditions. In the race the most I saw was 206,
>with the AI hitting a high of 204. No 210's in sight. You have a tailwind
>pushing your bunch to hit those speeds, maybe?

I'm guessing that's the case. I've seen 210's twice and I believe in
both cases the temperature was in the low 40's with cloud cover and a
strong wind (the replay I posted in the other part of the thread with
realistic weather was 42F and cloudy, dunno wind speed). If I can
replicate what I saw earlier I'll post a replay. At present I've
managed about the same (205-207).

It's weird. I went back to N2002 for a bit and while the cars may be
a bit light on torque the top speeds are pretty spot on at the plate
tracks. There's also more grip at Tona/Dega from what I can tell in
N2002 (which can be seen in the track.inis if you compare side to
side).

My current compromise is running 110 degrees clear no wind. 90 and
100 degrees puts the qual times around 48.0 but the race speeds tend
to creep into the 45's. 110F the cars qual around 185mph/48.5sec and
race in the high 46's with top speeds in the low 190's. The AI is
still pretty tough at those speeds, I've managed to win a 10 lap race
starting in 9th but only after several pass attempts for the lead
where no one would draft with me. Interestingly, now that I feel like
I have control over the car, I'm noticing really cool AI behavior like
the car behind me sometimes tucking its nose in and following me low
or high if I make a quick line change. More aggressive drivers seem
to really fight you for the low line too, I spent a good 3 laps trying
to push John Andretti out of my way because he was hugging the yellow
line out of turn 2 and all the way down the backstretch.

Jason

by **David G Fishe** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:38:14

> >Yeah, the track files have been modied :)

> >Under normal circumstances, you'll never see anywhere near 210.

> Hm, check out these replays. Both were taken with "realistic weather"
> turned on (believe temperatures were around 50 and it was cloudy -
> approximately the same weather that was had during qualifying this
> year). AI is set to 100%. Here's a 194mph qual lap where I lost a
> ton of time sliding into turn 1. The AI took the pole at 196.4mph:

> http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/DaytonaQual.rpy

> Here's me after dropping 20 spots on the second lap (after drifting
> high in turns 3/4 while trying to keep my speed over 200), attempting
> to take turn 1 at 205mph. Is this a controller problem? I would
> guess no since I'm using full lock and the right front tire is unable
> to grip the track anymore, but I honestly have no idea:

> http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/Daytona205.rpy

> Notice the lead cars hold their line perfectly without dipping below
> 200mph, after just completing a 203-204mph lap (on their second lap -
> I quit after clipping that replay but I'm guessing the third lap was a
> scorcher).

> Jason

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ Check the replay "Dayt50Degrees". I
set it at 50 degrees and cloudy with no wind and started 43rd. The main
problem was finding a place to pass back there. Later I qualified 16th and
just ran a normal race within the pack and carefully picked my spots to
pass.

You can enter the turn at 205, stay at 203 on the low line and exit T4 at
203 (lap 13) if you do it right. My fastest lap was a 44.013 and most laps
were in the low 44's.

You didn't respond to my other post in this thread so I don't know if you
even read my suggestion that it may be a controller issue. Either that, or I
guess it just takes some non-NASCAR guy like me who drives sims of "carbon
fiber computer-assisted tubs with wings" instead of cars that were "still
cars" from '67. :-p

David G Fisher

by **David G Fishe** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:00:59

I ran some practice laps at Michigan at 70 and no wind and AI at 100%.
Fastest was a 37.619 http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ which put me at
the bottom of the field. I didn't race with them so I don't know how that
would go, but in practice I certainly wasn't having the same success I had
at Daytona.

I think you're right about the 100% setting not being uniform across all
tracks. I'll try Talladega later tonight.

David G FIsher

> Great stuff David. Do you have any replays of info. about your
experiences
> at Michigan and California using the default fast set-up? If the AI is at
> 100%, where can you place in practise in a full field? Do you find the AI
> harder or easier at one or the other of these two tracks? I find the AI
can
> be matched or beaten fairly easily at Tally at 100% with the fast set-up.
> You obviously find the same. Wondering what your thoughts are (or what
> replays will show) at Mich. and Calif.

> Thanks,

> Marc

> > > >Ah, that would also explain why the AI's laps at the Glen are 2
> > > >seconds faster than the current track record. =)

> > > Played with the AI a bit, seems like 97% keeps the speeds more in line
> > > with real life at Daytona and the Glen (may have to bump up their qual
> > > ability a bit at the plate tracks but haven't tested enough yet). The
> > > AI is still fiendish at 97%, and I'm realizing now that one of the big
> > > improvements, at least at Daytona, is that they'll fight and block to
> > > keep the low line.

> > > Jason

> > I noticed you said in another post that you are finding it hard to keep
> the
> > low line at
> > Daytona due to the high corner speeds. I said in another thread that if
> > people are finding this a problem it must be controller related. I
posted
> a
> > replay here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ of part of a race
> against
> > the AI at 101% at 70 degrees where I drove the low, high, and middle
line
> a
> > bit after moving up to first with the fast setup with no problem. That's
> why
> > I thought it had to be
> > controller related if drivers I knew were excellent were finding the
fast
> > setup to push so bad. Pete S. from here at ras couldn't duplicate what
he
> > saw in the replay
> > but
> > then on Sat. in the chat room before the (almost) RASCAR race he said he
> > switched out the pots in his wheel and found that 100k pots worked the
> best
> > and he didn't find the fast setup to push anymore. 50k and 250k didn't
> feel
> > good to him.

> > What type of pots do you have in your wheel?

> > I posted a second replay today with some laps from a race against the AI
> at
> > 105% with the fast setup at 60 degrees where I move
> > from 43rd to 35th over 4 laps, and then move to the high line and middle
> > line for a few laps to show how the fast setup is still stable at those
> > speeds on any line. The replay is called DaytFast105. The fast setup is
> > still good
> > against the AI at that level and as you can see there is no push at all
> even
> > though I'm entering the turns at 200mph in a pack, 199 on the outside
> line,
> > and exiting T4 at 198. No problem at all
> > holding the low line even at the increased corner speeds.

> > I really think that people who are good drivers and are still having
> trouble
> > with the fast setup seeming to push are doing so because of the type of
> pots
> > they have in their wheel. Maybe Pete will read this and add his
thoughts.

> > David G Fisher

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:57:09

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:38:14 -0500, "David G Fisher"

>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ Check the replay "Dayt50Degrees". I
>set it at 50 degrees and cloudy with no wind and started 43rd. The main
>problem was finding a place to pass back there. Later I qualified 16th and
>just ran a normal race within the pack and carefully picked my spots to
>pass.

I'll take a look at it.

=p

As far as controller issues go, I have no idea what sort of pots I'm
using, it's a fairly new Sidewinder Pro set to fully linear. I did
try messing with the steering ratio a bit in the garage to see if
speeding it up some might help but I had the same problem. My guess
at this point (still grabbing that replay) is that I'm doing something
wrong on turn entry.

I do still hope something is (or can be) done about the ridiculous
speeds at the plate tracks, altho I'm also sure my complaints are a
minority view.

I do wonder what Manuel Deskalos was talking about when he said that
top speeds wouldn't change despite the horsepower, because I'm not
seeing this extra drag he referred to.

Jason

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 23 Feb 2003 00:50:24

Glad I am not the only one experiencing this. Although some claim it is
just a "feature" of the Practise Mode...???

Marc

> I ran some practice laps at Michigan at 70 and no wind and AI at 100%.
> Fastest was a 37.619 http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ which put me at
> the bottom of the field. I didn't race with them so I don't know how that
> would go, but in practice I certainly wasn't having the same success I had
> at Daytona.

> I think you're right about the 100% setting not being uniform across all
> tracks. I'll try Talladega later tonight.

> David G FIsher

> > Great stuff David. Do you have any replays of info. about your
> experiences
> > at Michigan and California using the default fast set-up? If the AI is
at
> > 100%, where can you place in practise in a full field? Do you find the
AI
> > harder or easier at one or the other of these two tracks? I find the AI
> can
> > be matched or beaten fairly easily at Tally at 100% with the fast
set-up.
> > You obviously find the same. Wondering what your thoughts are (or what
> > replays will show) at Mich. and Calif.

> > Thanks,

> > Marc

> > > > >Ah, that would also explain why the AI's laps at the Glen are 2
> > > > >seconds faster than the current track record. =)

> > > > Played with the AI a bit, seems like 97% keeps the speeds more in
line
> > > > with real life at Daytona and the Glen (may have to bump up their
qual
> > > > ability a bit at the plate tracks but haven't tested enough yet).
The
> > > > AI is still fiendish at 97%, and I'm realizing now that one of the
big
> > > > improvements, at least at Daytona, is that they'll fight and block
to
> > > > keep the low line.

> > > > Jason

> > > I noticed you said in another post that you are finding it hard to
keep
> > the
> > > low line at
> > > Daytona due to the high corner speeds. I said in another thread that
if
> > > people are finding this a problem it must be controller related. I
> posted
> > a
> > > replay here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davegf/ of part of a race
> > against
> > > the AI at 101% at 70 degrees where I drove the low, high, and middle
> line
> > a
> > > bit after moving up to first with the fast setup with no problem.
That's
> > why
> > > I thought it had to be
> > > controller related if drivers I knew were excellent were finding the
> fast
> > > setup to push so bad. Pete S. from here at ras couldn't duplicate what
> he
> > > saw in the replay
> > > but
> > > then on Sat. in the chat room before the (almost) RASCAR race he said
he
> > > switched out the pots in his wheel and found that 100k pots worked the
> > best
> > > and he didn't find the fast setup to push anymore. 50k and 250k didn't
> > feel
> > > good to him.

> > > What type of pots do you have in your wheel?

> > > I posted a second replay today with some laps from a race against the
AI
> > at
> > > 105% with the fast setup at 60 degrees where I move
> > > from 43rd to 35th over 4 laps, and then move to the high line and
middle
> > > line for a few laps to show how the fast setup is still stable at
those
> > > speeds on any line. The replay is called DaytFast105. The fast setup
is
> > > still good
> > > against the AI at that level and as you can see there is no push at
all
> > even
> > > though I'm entering the turns at 200mph in a pack, 199 on the outside
> > line,
> > > and exiting T4 at 198. No problem at all
> > > holding the low line even at the increased corner speeds.

> > > I really think that people who are good drivers and are still having
> > trouble
> > > with the fast setup seeming to push are doing so because of the type
of
> > pots
> > > they have in their wheel. Maybe Pete will read this and add his
> thoughts.

> > > David G Fisher

rec.autos.simulators

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega

N2003 Tona/Dega