rec.autos.simulators

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

jbo..

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by jbo.. » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00

It really shouldn't -- it doesn't have to be unenjoyable to be
realistic.  See my response to the query about NFSPU.

- JB




> >Does HFSPU qualify as a sim?

> I am relatively new to this group. Does the definition of a sim
> preclude any game that is fun?

> Andrew.

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Before you buy.
jbo..

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by jbo.. » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Frighteningly close to the truth around here, I'm afraid!

;-)

-- JB




> Relatively new but learning fast! Here are some more definitions:

> Rewarding: it'll take you three weeks to get off the starting line
and 6
> months fiddling with setups to get near the AI. Unless you spend 3
hours a
> day practising you'll never be able to race competitively on more
than one
> of the tracks. If you "play" another driving game at any time you go
back to
> square one. Michael Schumacher is off the pace because his reflexes
and car
> control are not up to the mark.

> Physics: What a 14 year-old who once drove a dodgem car thinks
(knows!) an
> F1 car handles like.

> Driver aids: Spawn of the Devil. A sure sign of "Arcade" rather
than "Sim".

> Low spec PC: Anything less than 700MHz.

> Ancient 3D card: Voodoo2.

> Essential patch: The background colour on one of the billboards uses
the
> wrong Pantone number.

> Latest drivers: The software engineer has just pressed "Build".

> Crap: Anything other than F1 2000 (copyright Greg Cisko).

> I'm sure there'll be more,

> Tony Whitley



> > I am relatively new to this group. Does the definition of a sim
> > preclude any game that is fun?

> > Andrew.

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jbo..

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by jbo.. » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Excellent response! I'd lump NFSPU more towards the relaxed end of the
sim category myself, but otherwise, you're dead-on.

-- JB






> > >Does HFSPU qualify as a sim?

> > I am relatively new to this group. Does the definition of a sim
> > preclude any game that is fun?

> LOL

> Naa, I think GPL is loads of fun :-)

> Sim is where lots of attention has been placed on making the cars
behave
> like real cars, and if it's a racing sim, it should also include most,
> if not all, of the setup options etc. that real life racers have to
play
> around with, examples would be, GPL, GP3, F12000, Nascar series from
> Papy and so on

> Game, angled more towards people who just want to drive instead of
> getting totally immersed in the thing, NFSPU, Driver, Midtown Madness
> etc, this does not mean that the cars should be less than realistic in
> feel, NFSPU does a very good job of modeling a Porsche, but it's
> slightly on the "light" side with physics tuned for driveablity rather
> than realism

> None is better than the other per se, it's just that this place used
to
> be a hang-out for hard-core sim racers, hence the name
> rec.autos.simulators, but personally I've had plenty of fun driving
the
> NFS series, especially PU, great for those times when you just want to
> go driving through the countryside in a 1973 911 RS :-)

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "Team Mirage"    http://www.teammirage.com/
> "The Pits"       http://www.theuspits.com/

> * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
> "Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

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Before you buy.
jbo..

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by jbo.. » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00

EXCELLENT!  My opinion of the physics engine in GP3 just went up
several notches!  Thanks for the response!

-- JB



> Banking is there !!! Go to http://www.alphaf1.com/gp3/ and download
> mad Silverstone : )

> Regards Mike






> ><SNIP>

> >> So that given you are on internet, and will have access to all the
> >> tweaks, addons and modifications that will follow, you have to also
> >> take this into account when calculating what your level of GP3
> >> enjoyment will be over the next few years.

> >Track editors are nice, but how long will I have to wait for banking
in
> >GP3? Iif it already exists, I apologize for my ignorance -- this is
> >intended to be an honest question.

> >Also, for $50, I would hope to get a finished product from Crammond
and
> >Hasbro, not one that virtually DEMANDS that you wait for amateur
> >(albeit talented) 3rd-party support to make it right.  In comparison,
> >DTR only cost $19, and aside from sounds, there wasn't much that
needed
> >to be done to improve on the final retail product.  Using that as a
> >basis for comparison, GP3 comes up VERY short, IMO.

> >-- JB

> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Before you buy.

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Before you buy.
Goy Larse

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Goy Larse » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00


> Excellent response! I'd lump NFSPU more towards the relaxed end of the
> sim category myself, but otherwise, you're dead-on.

Thx, yes I agree, NFSPU is a borderline thingy, but if we're to discuss
the merits of the driving model in NFSPU, I'd say the feel is there, but
it's a tad too easy, if correcting tail slides in an old 911 was that
easy, there wouldn't have been so many of them pointing the wrong way
when the Porsche club has it's annual track day at the local track :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

TToomm

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by TToomm » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00

I've noticed that in F12K, if you acquire are taste for
tapping the rears of your opponents, your top speed
will get clipped, due to increased drag from a slightly
damaged front wing.

One of the things that got me hooked early on, so that
I was willing to work thru the problems, was my first
race at Spain:  The radio warned me of a wreck in
sector 1, and that Barrichello was out.  I ignored it,
figuring it was just some canned sample chatter.  So
I go scorching down the straight with full confidence
that by now I had my braking point perfected.   I see
the first sign on the left, then the next, I'm waiting
for my marker, where's my marker, WHERE'S MY
FREAKIN MARKER!   and into the trap.  The replay
showed that Barrichello had touched wheels with
another driver, spun, and took out some of the signs.
One was completely knocked over and another was
torn in half, with only the top part broken off.

Tom

Intimidator ironhead wrote;

Don Scurlo

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Don Scurlo » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Nice write up, but what's not mentioned is the quality, or lack of it, of
online play. After experiencing VROC and league racing with GPL, any driving
sim that doesn't have well developed capabilities is destined for a short stay
on the hard drive. Like the second most important thing in life besides sim
racing: once you've experienced doing it with other people, playing with
yourself just isn't as much fun.

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.
GPLRank -5.09

Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site
http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/

Intimidato

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Intimidato » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00



>Nice write up, but what's not mentioned is the quality, or lack of it, of
>online play. After experiencing VROC and league racing with GPL, any driving
>sim that doesn't have well developed capabilities is destined for a short stay
>on the hard drive. Like the second most important thing in life besides sim
>racing: once you've experienced doing it with other people, playing with
>yourself just isn't as much fun.

Yeah, I did overlook the online aspect of both games.  Everybody is
always talking about the physics, or the graphics, so I wanted to make
sure I covered those in my original posting.  I hate to say it, but I
didn't go into online ability mainly because I was getting tired of
typing and didn't want to think about it anymore!!  But now that you
bring it up, both F1 2000 and GP3 are seriously lacking in online
capability.  I agree that well thought out online play really
increases the longevity of any racing sim.  Though I haven't played
GPL online, I do play N3 quite a bit, which also has excellent
multiplayer capability, IMHO.  In fact, I ONLY play N3 online.....the
offline mode is just no challenge.  The AI is a pushover, and the car
is not very hard to drive - you can sort of just go into autopilot
while driving.  And while neither of the (modern) F1 games has good
online play, I find that just driving the car in F1 2000 is
challenging enough that it's keeping me entertained.
Intimidato

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Intimidato » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00



>Pretty much everything you list here was tweaked in GP2 by
>people playing with editors.   Maybe you should just sit GP3
>to one side for a month or two, then come back when the
>GP2 editor programs have been modified for GP3.

One of the points I was making at the end of my post was the fact that
GP3 had very minor improvements considering the amount of time it was
being worked on.  While 3rd party add-ons may improve the game, it is
still VERY sad that it has to be left up to other people to bring the
game up to the level of it's competition.  It just goes to show the
laziness on the part of GC and/or Microprose.  Either by not bothering
to include and maybe improve upon the features of other racing sims,
or simply not bothering to pay attention to what the "other guy" was
doing.  Either way, it's disappointing, to say the least.
Intimidato

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Intimidato » Thu, 03 Aug 2000 04:00:00



I totally forgot about that one, but you're right, it is pathetic to
only be able to hear you're own car.  I've read a few people defending
this by saying that it would be impossible for the driver to hear
another car over the sound of his/her own and through the helmet, but
this just isn't true.  I remember someone (Martin Brundle maybe) say
once that one of the reasons that starts can be so difficult is
because you can't hear the revs of your own car over the noise of the
cars around you, so you really have to pay attention to the
instruments and kind of "feel" how much to rev the car.

 Yor welcome. :-)  Once I got going, I just couldn't stop!

Jay

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Jay » Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:00:00

Well said John...

While I have no doubt that within the next few months we'll have as many
tracks, carsets, sounds, AI editors, etc as we've seen with SCGT, it is
pitiful that these elements were lacking in the finished product. Still I'm
not going to make a complete judgement until it's available in the States
and I can try it myself.

Jay J

Jay

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Jay » Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:00:00

One more note... A SIM has real life (or at least modeled) race tracks,
whereas an "Arcade" racer has "fantasy" tracks to race on.

I would still consider the NFS series, and Viper Racing "Arcade" racers,
even though they have "real life" cars, and some sense of tweakability built
into them.

Some call Toca2, Colin McRae Rally, Rally Masters, STCC, and others a
cross-breed of Sim/Arcade, as even though they are based on real life racing
series, have real-to-life cars and tracks in them, they don't have enough
car tweaking/setup options, so the hard core "sim" crowd around wouldn't
consider them a "sim"

Jay J

Eldre

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Eldre » Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Hahaha...I've taken out some of those signs as well.  Maybe that's a good way
to***up opponents in online racing - take out the brake markers.  After
you've picked a substitute, of course... :)

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPL hcp. +52.52

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Stephen Ferguso

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Stephen Ferguso » Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:00:00


Depends.  I have limited time in the evenings, and not every evening, and
just want to sit down for about twenty minutes or so.  I still enjoy offline
racing (both in GPL and GP2, and hopefully soon in GP3) as the AI drivers
are still a challenge for me (see my above comment about not having enough
time to get good).  I have enjoyed online racing, but it's not compelling
enough *for me* to be a must-have feature.

If GPL had been around when I was an undergraduate at university, then
things would be very different and I would probably be a late-night, online
junky.

Stephen

Stephen Ferguso

Wow! GP3 really DOES suck! (Really long...make sure you have something to eat or drink)

by Stephen Ferguso » Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:00:00


I've never noticed, but can you destroy the scenery in GPL?

Stephen


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