rec.autos.simulators

OK, so it's hardly flawless, the demo is buggy. The graphics need
great improvement, there are problems with some areas of the crash
barriers which cause the car to spin across the track like it's being
shot out of a cannon and the menu interface looks like it's taken from
the 1980 but the physics are astonishing!

I haven't had a chance to read any other opinions about this title
yet, but I am looking forward to it.

It probably won't reach the cult statis of GPL, but it ranks above all
the others in the car handling department. Only my two cents, of
course...

You're right about the graphics though - they look quite poor.  Imagine
graphics like Project Gotham Racing with this physics engine.  *That* would
be something!  They need to implement some proper mip-mapping to avoid the
shimmering textures in the distance and the car models and lighting need an
overhaul.  The sad part is, despite these graphical inadequacies, the frame
rate is still very, no, incredibly poor.  Apparently these guys had a hand
in Black & White which also suffered from an attrocious 3D engine.  So, I
hate to say it, but I think this game has little chance of being a success
despite one of the most promising driving and multiplayer models around.

Cheers
Damien

P.S. While I'm complaining, I should mention that the lobby is OK but it
ain't no VROC. :(

P.P.S I hope I'm wrong about this game being a flop.

Hi!. The graphicsengine gets better and better actually. For example the
lights in the tunnel
at the straight!. It didnt look like that before. Notice the lights on the
dashboard when
going thru it. Pretty nice  :)

The shimmering textures, try options->graphics->mip bias!. The default
is -4.00 and
you will get the "shimmering textures in the distance". Which i prefer
actually.
If you set it to lower (higher?) -2.00 for example, the textures in the
distance will get
more blurry.
I dont fear the framerate in the final version.. or atleast i hope it will
get better.
I remember Racer from Ruud had pretty poor framerates before he optimised
it, and we
almost got the double fps from before!.

The FAQ on the web site states that the sim is 6-12 months away from
release. I'd say the developers have put together a simple graphics systems
to start with and concentrated on getting the physics right first. That's a
very promising way to go about things, at least from our perspective.

As for the graphics, check out the screen shot on the new home page. Click
on the central image for a hi-res version of the new cars and track.

I think that LFS will be a commercial success - especially given the low
budget development (2 programmers + an audio specialist).

For starters, you just can't beat the goodwill out there - look in the
forums. The developers are responding to the wishes of the beta testers and
the high level of "testing" by users out there will ensure a very solid
product at the end of the day.

You are more proof that games can lose a few fans by the careless inaccurate
words of a fringe user.

You so obviously haven't followed LFS like some and patched each time.

You so obviously have no idea of what they are doing and why as they explain
so fully to us in the forum.

You so obviously dont know how to set the game up from the Options
available.

You also sadly so obviously like to talk before knowing.

AD

-Larry

Marc

I love the approach the LFS guys have taken. Get somet out there, we
can test it, rip it to bits and then give feedback.

Just remember this IS only an alpha/beta. When they start hitting
version 1.0, then it will get really exciting.

If you download the replays of the top RallyX time in the RWD GT-R, you'll
see the fastest cars taking the same wide lines and neutral handling as on
the circuit. That's not how its done fast in real life!

In reality, unsealed surfaces offer much more grip to a car oversteering
than one in a neutral attitude, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, a sliding
car will dig down beneath the "marbles" that make up the surface and find
the much grippier hard surface underneath. Secondly, as the car slides, it
builds up a wall of dirt in front of the direction of the tyres, aiding the
grip even further.

However, the dirt circuit appears to be modelled as a more slippery version
of the paved circuit.

I've been Autocrossing and rally RWD cars for many years in real life, and
when I first tried out LFS, I was escatic at the realistic way that I could
throw the car sideways into corner on dirt, and balance the car on the
throttle. I couldn't figure out for a while while I wasn't getting very fast
times doing scandos and driving as I would in real life. I finally realised
that whilst the car's dynamic handling was very realistic, this was let down
by the modelling of relationship between the tyres and the dirt surface.

I've left a message along this line in the physics/handling section of the
LFS forum and hope that the developers will be able to sort out this aspect
of the physics modelling before the product is released.

Tim

Live for Speed:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Broadsword HAVE decided to go the exact same route as Live for Speed....
opening an official forum at RaceSimCentral and letting all us GPL nutcases
feel we have a say in the development ;)

Spirit of Speed 1957
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Mikkel

Hear, hear!  Having a solid physics and multiplayer core is what will
really give LFS legs, and could make it the benchmark tin-top sim of
the next 5 yrs.
(Hey Goy - *here's* your damn Aussie V8 sim ;)...)
Compare this to ISI (or even worse, Geoff C), who never had the
greatest multiplayer, and it doesn't seem to be improving as the
engine goes through multiple iterations, or the West's (who seem to be
having all kinds of fun making 3D models of tubular space frames and
suspensions - show me a car, on a track, OK?).

Kendt

(The original SOS '37 gfx were pretty darn good but the physics were
pretty darn crappy)

Regards, Ruud

:0)

I have applied each patch, and raced each version for countless hours both
on and offline.

I know what they're doing, but I don't think they're aiming high enough.
Remember, this game has extraordinary potential.  It would be a crying shame
if it were released in a state that has it loved by simmers but scoffed at
by mainstream gamers.

You mean the mip-mapping thing?  Fair enough.  But at the end of the day, it
looks worse than NFSHP2 and runs at half the frame rate.  Judging from what
I saw with 'Black & White', I'm concerned that these guys have a 'near
enough is good enough' attitude with graphics.

<sigh>
That's pretty rich coming from someone telling me that I haven't even
patched the game....