rec.autos.simulators

Wouldn't you rather them concentrate on a tarmac only game that KILLS.
Rather than a pretty darn good tarmac/dirt/gravel game? Y'know?

I'd love to see them rock-out on the tarmac physics.. and then maybe a year
or two down the road they can release a sequel to the game. A rally only
game! Intennnnse! :)

I think the graphics engine is better than some give it credit for. I get
25-60FPS consistently on my Radeon 7500 at the default settings (1024x,
etc.). The car models look suprisingly good for a pretty low polygon count
and the track models look great.. the scenery goes really out (E.G. The
highway and road signs outside of the back straight).

I do understand that everyone is just wanting to see this game realize it's
full potential though..

Mike
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The frame rate is playable, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good as the
FIA GT V3 mod yet runs at half the speed. (I get about 100fps in that mod -
35 with a full grid)  I know it's only an alpha or test version, but still,
it's going to take an act of god to bring the graphics up to the level of
that mod.  Remember, Gran Turismo 3 maintains 60fps on the PS2 with about 6
or 7 cars on screen..same goes for Rallisport Challenge and Project Gotham
on Xbox.  The bar has been raised since GPL and mediocre won't cut it
anymore...

Have a break man, everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Or do you
want to take this outside. ;-) <g>

The physics theory is out there -
http://www.***net.co.jp/dads/semi...Interaction.pdf

I've sent the link to the authors - and am hoping for a nice Christmas
pressy!

From an objective perspective (is that an oxymoron?), there are more
followers of circuit racing than rallying/autocross out there, so yes, if it
proves very difficult to include implement deformable surface modelling with
the resources available, then a tarmac only option would make sense for a
first release.

However, my personal love is rallying, and there are many out there who now
feel the frustration of wanting to be able to drive a rally car naturally.
Rally Trophy was getting there, but doesn't have the naturual turn-in or
other dynamic physics that are so good in LFS. LFS has most of the
solution - surely getting the grip levels right on dirt can't be that hard?

(deep breath bit - please don't flame!)

Many motorsport experts agree that the rally driver has the greater overall
driving skill, when compared to the racing driver. When rallying, you are in
fact driving in an extra dimension compared to racing. Whilst the 4 wheel
drifts and neutral oversteer skills required of the GPL era  certainly come
closer to rallying in skill level than the modern racing car, such racing
drivers aren't required to master the scandanavian flick, jumps, and
radically changing surface grip levels.

For instance, how many fast LFS circuit lappers out there can throw the GT-R
or Turbo sideways before the hairpin past the start/finish line, balancing
the car on opposite lock the entire time, and manage to slide it around the
apex of the hairping right hander whilst at more than 90 degrees to the
entry straight, and then put the power on early while still going slightly
backwards to start pushing the car wide towards the outide of the dirt
track, and be able to straighten up the car on full power without
over-correcting the slide?

I'll give you another example...

I started in motorsport with autokhanas - manouvering around poles
(witches's hats) on grass, including reversing into "garages". I never got
out of 2nd gear, but learnt so much about car control!! - stuff that many
racing drivers never master.

About 10-15 years ago, I was watching one of warm up events to a F1 GP,
where the F1 drivers had to drive a little FWD car around a tight  tarmac
autokhana circuit. It was amazing to watch, as you could see who had done
some rallying in their time and who hadn't! Mansell and Prost were trying to
take smooth racing lines and were understeering everywhere. Keke Rosberg
(Finnish of course!) jumped in and just lit up the front front tyres and I
think had the handbrake jammed on the entire time. The front tyres never
seemed to move more than 5 degrees the entire time, as Keke was just driving
a never ending series of pendulums. He finished the course in less than half
the time of the other racing drivers!

When watching any type of circuit racing on a race circuit, it is
immediately obvious who has rallying experience. When the cars get really
sideways, the people with a rallying background will almost always be able
hold the slide and pull out of it perfectly, whilst the racers will try to
straighten up too soon, over-correct, and spin out the other way.

I grew up in Australia, where the touring cars at Bathurst were the biggest
event on the calendar (and still are). Who else can remember the number of
times that*** Johnson would over-correct his big falcon and spin out,
whilst Colin Bond (ex rally driver) would hold the most amazing slides and
keep racing.

So.. at the end of the day I'm rather biased in what I would like from LFS.
If they can do the ralllying physics realistically, I look forward to
showing a few of the top GPL drivers a thing or two about fast times on
dirt.

Cheers,
Tim

I couldn't agree less; I think the graphics are very good.  I haven't
played every sim of the past year, but they're about the best I've seen.  
Preferable to those of NFS6 (which I use as an example solely because
graphics are its only strong point).  You're right about the shimmering on
distant objects, though.  Frame rates are rather low, but again are higher,
on my system, than those of NFS6.

On a top notch pc they are stunning.

PC1

XP1700+
512 DDR 2100 ram
GF 4 ti 4200 128mb

PC2

XP2600+
512 DDR 2700 ram
Ati 9700 Pro

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LFS reminds me a little of the The Need For Speed. The Corvette in
TNFS both handles and looks similar to the XR GT. It's the closest
comparison I could come up with.