rec.autos.simulators

by **Wosc** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

When you start to spin or slid, you turn away from the spin (which is
normally what you do) and it spins more but if you turn into the spin (which
normally makes you spin down low) it stops spinning and you go about your
business. Just ticks me off cause it is completely opposite in real racing.
Jesse

by **Schlom** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Try either getting completly out or totally flooring it when this happens.
Hitting the brales hard quickly works well too if your bias is set toward the
front.

Chris

by **DAVI** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

No it is not. It is not the fast way to save a spin by turning more when
car starts to slide. In really bad cases you will just careen off the
track due to the whole car slides. What is happening is you are making the
whole car slide and are bleeding speed when you do this. The lower speed
makes the car more handlable. If you are able to catch the rear end
sliding you can use it to make the car rotate thru the corner and you will
not lose any time. the operative word here is IF

--
David Robinson

Egan's Law

The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
gear.

by **Wosc** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

but think about it, the whole car gets loose, you crank in more steering to
make it turn more unless it goes to a 90 degree angles, if you are really
sliding in real life with the back end halfway out and crank in more
steering, isnt it going to catch and continue to spin? Only answer if you
have real life experience.
Jesse

>> When you start to spin or slid, you turn away from the spin (which is
>> normally what you do) and it spins more but if you turn into the spin
>(which
>> normally makes you spin down low) it stops spinning and you go about your
>> business. Just ticks me off cause it is completely opposite in real
>racing.
>> Jesse

>No it is not. It is not the fast way to save a spin by turning more when
>car starts to slide. In really bad cases you will just careen off the
>track due to the whole car slides. What is happening is you are making the
>whole car slide and are bleeding speed when you do this. The lower speed
>makes the car more handlable. If you are able to catch the rear end
>sliding you can use it to make the car rotate thru the corner and you will
>not lose any time. the operative word here is IF

>--
>David Robinson

>Egan's Law

>The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
>gear.

by **Wosc** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Im not TRYING to find a way to stop spinning, i found that brakes help a lot
when you have some good front bias. What I am saying is that is something I
dont like about it is how when you go to correct a spin, it spins you, and i
dont mean overcorrecting.
Jesse

>>>When you start to spin or slid, you turn away from the spin (which is
>>>normally what you do) and it spins more but if you turn into the spin
(which
>>>normally makes you spin down low) it stops spinning and you go about your
>>>business. Just ticks me off cause it is completely opposite in real
racing.
>>>Jesse

>Try either getting completly out or totally flooring it when this happens.
>Hitting the brales hard quickly works well too if your bias is set toward
the
>front.

>Chris

by **Daisy Du** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:46:50 -0500, "Wosco"

>When you start to spin or slid, you turn away from the spin (which is
>normally what you do) and it spins more but if you turn into the spin (which
>normally makes you spin down low) it stops spinning and you go about your
>business. Just ticks me off cause it is completely opposite in real racing.
>Jesse

Yeah, I know that it's frustrating but, it's not as unrealistic as it
seems. IMO the trick to GPL is to use tiny amounts of wheel imput to
set your turn-ins and the use your right foot to steer and make
corrections and keep the car balanced. In my Toyota the old "steer in
to the slide" thing works (I try it every once in a while on my
qualifying lap to work <g>) You CAN do those Steve Kinser style World
of Outlaws turns in GPL . The car just has to be "neutral" and you
have to use very subtle input to make it behave.

by **Thad Failo** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Okay, This one has me quite perplexed. I guess I am confused by how you
where talking about correcting for the spin. Driving GPL reminds me of
driving in snow/ice. Now, I have never driven a rear-engine vehical in the
snow, but I have driven plenty on rear-wheel drive cars in the snow. Last
winter, I was driving a long on a icy road, and all of the sudden, The
back-end of the car wanted to lead. I am sliding! What do I do? Point the
wheels in the direction I want to go. Well, I over corrected and the
backend wanted to come around the other side. So, I turn the wheel again to
get the front tires headed in the direction that I want to head. Well to
make a few sec. even shorter, I kept over correcting (fishtailing) and got
to a point (with on coming traffic) I had to get stopped and or off the
road. Thus, my mind in a split sec. decided to induce a complete spin.
Thus I turned the wheel away from the direction I wanted to head and now I
am spinning. To finish the story, I ended up in a ditch, which was much
better the hitting an oncoming car. GPL, you got one big problem sitting
right behind you (and I asume it is worse on ther different cars). When
that engine wants to lead, you are going to have your hands full. IF (like
stated in another post) your quick enough to catch it, you can use it to
your advantage. IF NOT then you have a lot of thinks to think about. I am
not a expert in slid/spin recovery. All, I can tell you, is that if you
don't do it right, that engine is going to lead the dance. If, I am totally
wrong just ignore me.

Thad

by **Jason Mond** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Hi Thad,

To reduce this fish-tailing action in GPL put some toe-in on the rears (positive

numbers). The Ferrari is the fish-tail king of GPL ;-)

One thing I *like* about GPL -- the fish-tailing upon hard accelleration :-)

Jason.

> Okay, This one has me quite perplexed. I guess I am confused by how you
> where talking about correcting for the spin. Driving GPL reminds me of
> driving in snow/ice. Now, I have never driven a rear-engine vehical in the
> snow, but I have driven plenty on rear-wheel drive cars in the snow. Last
> winter, I was driving a long on a icy road, and all of the sudden, The
> back-end of the car wanted to lead. I am sliding! What do I do? Point the
> wheels in the direction I want to go. Well, I over corrected and the
> backend wanted to come around the other side. So, I turn the wheel again to
> get the front tires headed in the direction that I want to head. Well to
> make a few sec. even shorter, I kept over correcting (fishtailing) and got
> to a point (with on coming traffic) I had to get stopped and or off the
> road. Thus, my mind in a split sec. decided to induce a complete spin.
> Thus I turned the wheel away from the direction I wanted to head and now I
> am spinning. To finish the story, I ended up in a ditch, which was much
> better the hitting an oncoming car. GPL, you got one big problem sitting
> right behind you (and I asume it is worse on ther different cars). When
> that engine wants to lead, you are going to have your hands full. IF (like
> stated in another post) your quick enough to catch it, you can use it to
> your advantage. IF NOT then you have a lot of thinks to think about. I am
> not a expert in slid/spin recovery. All, I can tell you, is that if you
> don't do it right, that engine is going to lead the dance. If, I am totally
> wrong just ignore me.

> Thad

> >When you start to spin or slid, you turn away from the spin (which is
> >normally what you do) and it spins more but if you turn into the spin
> (which
> >normally makes you spin down low) it stops spinning and you go about your
> >business. Just ticks me off cause it is completely opposite in real
> racing.
> >Jesse

--
--------
Jason Monds
"My other car is a Ferrari"
http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl - For my combined gas/brake setups
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

by **Wosc** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

so you are saying that when in a turn in a real life racing car, and it
starts to get loose and start to spin, dont use opposite lock cause it helps
the spin?

>> but think about it, the whole car gets loose, you crank in more steering
>to
>> make it turn more unless it goes to a 90 degree angles, if you are really
>> sliding in real life with the back end halfway out and crank in more
>> steering, isnt it going to catch and continue to spin? Only answer if
>you
>> have real life experience.
>> Jesse

>The tires are not addressing the road properly and with this the front
>tires are still sliding till you bleed off speed. Trust me I know this
>since I spent far too long with a car that understeers and cranking in more
>steering just made the understeer worse, till I slowed down enough for
>tires to get back some grip. It is very similar in GPL the car is
>understeering cranking in more steering only makes car slow down, by
>letting off some steering lock you will help front hook up better and roll
>thru corner. Additionally if the rear end is sliding, by cranking in more
>steering you will make front tries loose grip and whole car will slide.
>This slide will bleed off speed, and if you have left track surface you
>will be able to continue on. If you work on it for a while you will be
>able to catch the car at start fo slide and then control it and make use of
>it. In fact I have my Lotus and Eagle setup for monza to oversteer at the
>corner entry off throttle and have a slight understeer on the throttle at
>the exit. This helps me balance the car thru the turn and also has taken 2
>tenths of my best time. 1:27s are jsut a few thousandths away.

>--
>David Robinson

>Egan's Law

>The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
>gear.

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

You are not totally wrong...we won't ignore you. In fact, you're dead-on.
You can imagine the difference between a front-engined, rear-wheel drive car
(which many people have driven, and some of us in snowy climates) and a
rear-engined, rear-wheel drive cart...they don't react the same way when at
the limit. Your "IF you can catch it" sums things up perfectly for me.

Marc

>Okay, This one has me quite perplexed. I guess I am confused by how you
>where talking about correcting for the spin. Driving GPL reminds me of
>driving in snow/ice. Now, I have never driven a rear-engine vehical in the
>snow, but I have driven plenty on rear-wheel drive cars in the snow. Last
>winter, I was driving a long on a icy road, and all of the sudden, The
>back-end of the car wanted to lead. I am sliding! What do I do? Point
the
>wheels in the direction I want to go. Well, I over corrected and the
>backend wanted to come around the other side. So, I turn the wheel again
to
>get the front tires headed in the direction that I want to head. Well to
>make a few sec. even shorter, I kept over correcting (fishtailing) and got
>to a point (with on coming traffic) I had to get stopped and or off the
>road. Thus, my mind in a split sec. decided to induce a complete spin.
>Thus I turned the wheel away from the direction I wanted to head and now I
>am spinning. To finish the story, I ended up in a ditch, which was much
>better the hitting an oncoming car. GPL, you got one big problem sitting
>right behind you (and I asume it is worse on ther different cars). When
>that engine wants to lead, you are going to have your hands full. IF (like
>stated in another post) your quick enough to catch it, you can use it to
>your advantage. IF NOT then you have a lot of thinks to think about. I am
>not a expert in slid/spin recovery. All, I can tell you, is that if you
>don't do it right, that engine is going to lead the dance. If, I am
totally
>wrong just ignore me.

>Thad

>>When you start to spin or slid, you turn away from the spin (which is
>>normally what you do) and it spins more but if you turn into the spin
>(which
>>normally makes you spin down low) it stops spinning and you go about your
>>business. Just ticks me off cause it is completely opposite in real
>racing.
>>Jesse

by **Wosc** » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Yeah i run at 18 normally and I can notice it a lot at silverstone and at
turn 1 at monza. In turn 1 at Mza, on teh exit, if it is a little loose
coming out and i start to turn to the left a little to correct, it will
continue the spin but if I turn RIGHT or hold it to where i was steering, it
just keeps going. Same thing happened at silver today. I was driving
around and I started spinning in turn 1, so i just held it at that amount of
steering and added just a little bit more, but then the next time it did the
same thing, it got real loose but this time i corrected it using what should
work and it spun out right away. Happens all the time. Dont know why but
it is very unrealistic. It should help correct or straighten it out when
you use opposite lock. If I get a good replay showing the 2 then ill post
it.
Wosco

>On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:46:50 -0500,

>>When you start to spin or slid, you turn away from the spin (which is
>>normally what you do) and it spins more but if you turn into the spin
(which
>>normally makes you spin down low) it stops spinning and you go about your
>>business. Just ticks me off cause it is completely opposite in real
racing.
>>Jesse

>It doesn't do that for me. I would strongly suggest increasing your
steering
>ratio (less sensitive), or taking it a little more easy!

>--
>// rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

by **Matthew Knutse** » Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:00:00

> but think about it, the whole car gets loose, you crank in more steering to
> make it turn more unless it goes to a 90 degree angles, if you are really
> sliding in real life with the back end halfway out and crank in more
> steering, isnt it going to catch and continue to spin? Only answer if you
> have real life experience.
> Jesse

Am I correct when I think you're saying that counter-steering doesn't
work?
That's odd, because it's not how I feel it....
I think it is very similair to my real-life experiences. The major
difference from standard
road cars is, that you have so much more (and hotter) *** on the
road. A real racecar, with sticky
tires (not that sticky in GPL <g>) is quite tricky; You can catch it up
to a certain point, but
the rear end of a rwd racecar tends to steer a lot, with the LSD and
all. In short, if it goes sideways, the
rears decide a lot more than in a road car.
I dunno if I'm clear here.
One serious case I saw of this I remember a long time ago, when there
was an asphalt hillclimb race locally.
A guy who had never run on slicks before, raced his Opel Rally car. On
his run up to the finish, he got it sideways, and doing as he was used
to on road-tyres, he tried to counter-steer with full throttle. The
rears
were so grippy, they pushed the slide along, and he ended up in a tree
full throttle.

Matt

--
-----------------------------------------
Matthew Knutsen

"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~kareknut/simrace1.htm
-----------------------------------------

by **Tilu** » Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Hey Jesse !

That anomaly only happens if your car slowed VERY much down in a huge slide
!
But opposite lock also vorks very, very nice in GPL ( i have a replay, had a
huge slide at mosort, applying op. lock soon enough, and i was sliding
trought the whole turn, whit opposite lock, on, and i coud carry on, and i
still had a good time !)

>Try either getting completly out or totally flooring it when this happens.
>Hitting the brales hard quickly works well too if your bias is set toward
the
>front.

Yeah ! thats a problem !
That will never work on any ractrack, any car !
And you can make this a lot of times, whitout loosing the car, i use the
same thing, to
get the car back in straight line at Nuring if i have problems...

Tilus
sorry for the bad english !

by **DAVI** » Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:00:00

The tires are not addressing the road properly and with this the front
tires are still sliding till you bleed off speed. Trust me I know this
since I spent far too long with a car that understeers and cranking in more
steering just made the understeer worse, till I slowed down enough for
tires to get back some grip. It is very similar in GPL the car is
understeering cranking in more steering only makes car slow down, by
letting off some steering lock you will help front hook up better and roll
thru corner. Additionally if the rear end is sliding, by cranking in more
steering you will make front tries loose grip and whole car will slide.
This slide will bleed off speed, and if you have left track surface you
will be able to continue on. If you work on it for a while you will be
able to catch the car at start fo slide and then control it and make use of
it. In fact I have my Lotus and Eagle setup for monza to oversteer at the
corner entry off throttle and have a slight understeer on the throttle at
the exit. This helps me balance the car thru the turn and also has taken 2
tenths of my best time. 1:27s are jsut a few thousandths away.

--
David Robinson

Egan's Law

The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
gear.

by **DAVI** » Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Racing a car with racing slicks is a completely different matter. They
have great response but the limit of adhesion is very knife edged, where a
street tire will loose its grip much slower then a proper racing tire.

--
David Robinson

Egan's Law

The Pace car will always go 2 MPH slower then your race car idles in first
gear.

rec.autos.simulators

The one thing i dislike about GPL

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The one thing i dislike about GPL

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