rec.autos.simulators

There's been a lot of chatter here & via e-mail regarding cars in NRL
& sponsorship.  Hopefully, this will help to clear things up (although
the news might not make everyone happy)...

NCR 2, which will be the first "engine" for NRL, will use individual
cars/car files as opposed to the mega single car set that exists in
NCR 1.x.  From this fact, people have been making some incorrect
assumptions about NRL.  Further complicating the issue is that it's
starting to sink in that NRL truely is a fully-sanctioned division of
NASCAR, and people are starting to make assumptions about how it will
work.

1)  Math problems:  NCR 2 will have 50 (or so) cars.  NRL will have
thousands of subscribers (we already do!).  So, the math just doesn't
work... how can thousands of people reserve cars when there are only
50 to choose from?  

2)  Legal problems (part 1):  There are potential legal/licensing
issues involving NRL drivers driving Winston Cup licensed cars.  Is it
OK for Ed Martin to represent himself in the NRL via the #24 DuPont
car?  Is it fair to DuPont, Hendricks Motorsports and/or Jeff Gordon?
Is it fair to NRL (DuPont isn't paying for the NRL representation of
their car)?  Given this, we have decided that the best/only course is
to steer clear of any licensing problems involving cars from other
divisions.

3) Legal problems (part 2):  There are HUGE legal issues with users
uploading/downloading their own cars.  If you've followed the threads
up here regarding Daytona, IMS, or any other licensed properties, you
have an idea of the issues.  Bottom line, licensed properties 1) are
valuable; and 2) must be protected.  If a licensed property does not
take all steps possible to protect the free distribution of their
mark, they WILL loose it.  It will become part of the public domain.
Asprin vs Mickey Mouse... asprin is public domain, Mickey is worth
billions.

It is virtually (pardon the pun) impossible for us to police licensed
cars being uploaded & downloaded if we allowed uploading & downloading
of cars, so we can not allow it. [Before you jump all over me on this
one, PLEASE think about the value of licenses & sponsorship... as in
the paragraph before this one, and the 2 paragraphs following it.]

4)  Sponsorship:  Even if #2 & #3 didn't exist, NRL is a separate
division of NASCAR.  Although NCR 2 will mirror the Winston Cup
division NRL does not have to & will not (at least in terms of
sponsored cars).  In other words, NRL will have its own sponsored
cars.

The sponsors are paying for NRL cars based on exposures... that's
where the value lies.  So, NRL will have to ensure that these
sponsored cars are used/seen.

So, what does this all mean?  

IDENTIFICATION OF DRIVERS
People want to be able to have some recognition in the NRL.  Further,
it's important that people are recognized in the NRL.  "Sports is all
about personalities"... we know this, and we are going to cultivate it
in NRL.  But if we have a finite number of total cars, how do we do
it?  It's a tough problem...

The plan is this...  When you join the NRL, you will be able to submit
a list of preferred cars... let's say a list of 5. When you join a
race, the system will do its best to give you your #1 choice.  If it's
taken, it will go for #2, and so on.  Priority/selection will be based
on skill level (first) and when you joined this particular race
(second).  So if racer 1 is a skill level 10, while racer 2 is a skill
level 9, and both have the "X" car as their #1 choice, racer 1 would
get car "X".  If racers 1 & 2 are both skill level 10's, but racer 2
signed up to join the race event before racer 1 did, racer 2 would get
their first choice.

UPLOAD/DOWNLOAD USER CARS
This will not be possible in NRL.  Because NRL will have its own
sponsored cars, we can not/will not allow those cars to be
"over-ridden" with custom user cars.  [See #4 above.]

Even if we did allow it, it wouldn't worklogistically.  Think about
the thousands of users in NRL, and some percentage of them all
painting/exchanging custom cars.  We would have to download these car
to each user... or at least download the cars necessary for each race
to each user -- that could mean 30+ cars for each race.  The download
traffic & time would kill all of us!  You think AOL is bad with the
"Please wait while we download new artwork" stuff?  Ouch!

NRL SPONSORSHIP OF CARS
Sponsorship for all aspects of NRL will remain the exclusive domain of
the NRL.  Put differently, people/users will NOT be allowed to go out
& get their own sponsors for NRL.  Yes, I know this is the case in the
other 12 NASCAR divisions (teams get their own sponsors), but it will
not be the case for NRL... at least in the beginning.  

There are a whole host of reasons why this is the case... and I'm sure
I'll get into all of them in detail later in this thread.  The main
issues surround value of sponsorship.

This is not to say that this will always be the case.  We hope that
someday, people will be able to get their own sponsors.  However, in
the begining, it is important to build the division up to a point
where there is value in individual car sponsorship.

STANDARD CARS (a.k.a. WHO AM I ON YOUR SYSTEM?)
With NCR 1.x & the current prototype, depending on what carset each
individual user has loaded, each person will see different cars.  This
is a problem for a couple of reasons.  First, if I have the standard
NCR 1.x car set loaded, and you have the MULTICAR car set loaded, you
will see me in 1 car with 1 number, but I will see myself in another
car with another number.  Ooooops!  That just doesn't work.  We have
to ensure that everyone is seeing the same cars... just for
identification purposes.

Second, back to the value of sponsorship issue.  If a sponsor is going
to pay for a car, a billboard, to host a race and/or series, etc.,
they have to make sure that the viewers/players/users are all exposed
to it.  Otherwise, the sponsorship has no value.  Sponsorship is all
about exposures.  So, we have to ensure that everyone is seeing
(exposed to) the same thing(s).

Let me turn this around...  Let's say we do allow you to go out & get
your own sponsor for your own car.  Let's say that Ed Martin signs GM
to sponsor him (if you've ever seen me race, you know what a joke THAT
is!).  Well, if GM is going to throw any money in my direction, they
are going to do it so that other people will see that GM car on the
track.  Well, if NRL doesn't ensure that everyone is seeing the same
cars, that GM sponsorship is valueless.  Sure, I might see the GM car
on my system, but others might see me in the Ford Credit car.  Oooops!

SUMMARY
1)  Users will have a facility to select their preferred cars, and the
system will do its best to put people in the car(s) they choose.

2)  Users will not be able to use their own cars in NRL.  This is due
to sponsorship value & identification.

3)  Users will not be able to go out & sign up their own sponsors for
NRL... at least initially.

Hopefully, this all makes sense...

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

        [the concise definition on sponsorship and the NRL]

Along the lines of car sets, has there been a resolution to the
question of selecting a Chevy/Ford/Pontiac?  Also, I take it that the
option of running Hoosier tires will be discontinued in version 2?

Great work Ed, keep it up, looks like you guys are starting to make a
little headway.  Oh, by the way, how can we get the NRL pitched by
Benny Parsons on RPM2nite?  You may want to send him a few
cheeseburgers for this.

Waiting patiently (yeah right)

Matt Myers
---------------------------------------------
Expressing individualism is just plain wrong.

                          Crow T. Robot

Thanks Ed...people should be thankful you are here to even answer such
questions, instead of endless and pointless speculation.

KenH

I think you might hear a lot about NRL on television once we get
closer to launching.  NASCAR is behind this 100%, and they really want
to make it big.

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Totally makes sense Ed.

Now for a request.  I have no idea how your graphics engine works, but certainly I
understand that you are using texture mapping onto polygons.  How difficult would
it be to alter any particular texture in memory during game play?  A GREAT feature
would be that the user name appears on the back of the car.  Each car has a separate
texture for this panel, and my assumption (but I have no idea really) is that
that texture resides in memory and *is* alterable on a race by race basis.

My natural leap is a piece of code that draws the user name onto this panel,
replacing the car default texture.  Could this be done?

Of course.. this prolly would not make your sponsors happy, but it sure would be cool.

BTW- this would also be a great way to put DONUTS on the DOORS after contact!

Tim V

This brings up a couple of questions.

1) We will still be able to create our own cars for our own personal
use?  During head-to-head and IPX races?  During single driver races?

2) Does the prospect of "paying" sponsors mean that some of the costs of
running the "network" will be offset?  Or is NASCAR walking away with
all of the money?

Anyway, thanks Ed for the detailed information.  It all makes sense and
should have been logical from the get go.  But you gotta understand, we
are virtual racers and this means we are DREAMERS!!!!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Ed, so (initially) I could go out and try to get, say, Microsoft to
sponsor my car In NRL???? Too Kewl!!

1) You will absolutely be able to create & use your own cars in single
player, 2 player & 8 player IPX.  There will be an enhanced paintkit
in the box.  We just won't allow non-NRL cars online.

2)  You have hit the nail right on the head.  The reason we are going
after sponsorship is to drive the cost of the service down as low as
possible.  And, no, NASCAR isn't walking away with anything they don't
deserve.  Believe me (if nothing else, I'm painfully honest up here)
I'm not saying this for suck-up points, but NASCAR is an awesome
partner.

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Ed, I'm never one to flog a dead horse (more than twice a day), but since
this is going to be a NASCAR licensed series, with no prize money at that,
I would think that the sponsors would be lining 3 deep up to get their
logos on the NRL cars!  Free advertising!  You might not be able to
emulate a black #3 Goodwrench, but I'd bet the companies would probably
be willing to create all new cars for you...send all the major sponsors
a copy of Paintkit!

I realize you already answered to this thread earlier...just food for
thought.

Neil
--
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel..

       Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

: 1) You will absolutely be able to create & use your own cars in single
: player, 2 player & 8 player IPX.  There will be an enhanced paintkit
: in the box.  We just won't allow non-NRL cars online.

Hey Ed,

Will the current PCX files be portable to NASCAR 2's Paintkit????

Jeff Foglietta

You've currently got control of your own chassis and tires on Hawaii.

Charlie Heath
Papyrus Design Group

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

Yes, user created series will still exist in NRL.  There will be
pickup races, user created series & NRL series.  You will have to be a
member of NRL to run in NRL races and/or be a series administrator for
a user created series.

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Isn't everyone that races on the network going to be part of the NRL??? Or
is the NRL just a part of the online service?? If everyone is part of the
NRL, anyone can be a series administrator...

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