rec.autos.simulators

Motorcycle handlebars similator controls?

Robert D. Bake

Motorcycle handlebars similator controls?

by Robert D. Bake » Wed, 30 May 2001 03:46:22


>Sorry folks, I just can't restrain myself...


>> I disagree with your definition.  The major input for counter-steering is
>> your input on the clip-ons, where the energy used to push the clip on
>> forward is countered by the gyroscopic effect of wheel rotation

>Correct, so far. This is why steering is lighter at slower speeds.

        Most people I know would say that steering is heavier at lower
speeds. You seem to say the same thing yourself later on, below.

        Gyroscopic effect.

1_2151_272.jpg

        OK, I think I understand the difficulty here. It's _not_ the amount
of angular input to the handlebar that has anything to do with the
countersteer effect - it's the amount of force you input, and the duration.
You _can't_ input large steering angles at high speeds; the best you can do
is push harder (and lean faster...) If you put gentle pressure
(imperceptible change in the angle of the handlebars) on one side, you'll
start to lean, and keep on leaning until you ease off. Once you're into the
turn (and no longer need to change the angle of lean) you're no longer
inputting countersteer. As you exit the turn, you'll do the opposite to lift
the bike upright and exit the turn.

        Absolutely NOT. Without precession forces being input, a gyroscope
is stable. It doesn't _care_ if it's leaning into a turn - if you don't mess
with it, it's happy to stay just where it is.

        I don't understand what you're saying here.

        Gravity. A gyroscope isn't a levitation machine.

Ben Colema

Motorcycle handlebars similator controls?

by Ben Colema » Wed, 30 May 2001 11:30:49

Gyroscopic effects are present, but only part of the equation.  If you
really want to convince yourself, try this:  rig up your bike with spinning
wheels, spinning in the opposite direction to the road wheels.  Does the
behaviour of the bike change? (other than the awkwardness of having some
spinning wheels on it with you)  I think you will agree that, although
gyroscopic forces are countered and thus neutralised, the bike is still
rideable and indeed will require countersteer to initiate a turn.

Ben

Asbj?rn Bj?rnst

Motorcycle handlebars similator controls?

by Asbj?rn Bj?rnst » Wed, 30 May 2001 14:57:17

I searched the web, and I found this:
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/Teaching/Steering.htm
J Fajans is a physics professor at the University of California who is
also a bike-rider, and has dome some research on his hobby.

If you follow the link at the bottom you will find a pdf paper about
how (motor)bikes turn. In summary: gyroscopic effects is created by
the lean, and the effect is that it helps turn the front wheel. In
other words, excactly the opposite of what some people here claim.
Also interesting - gyroscopic action becomes less important at
high speed.

The article is interesting, and has a couple of nice graphs showing
the size of gravitational, centrifugal and gyroscopic torques etc.

'nuff said.
--
  -asbjxrn

Philip D'Amat

Motorcycle handlebars similator controls?

by Philip D'Amat » Thu, 31 May 2001 12:47:34

I'm not entirely sure, but I think we just said the same thing.  Let's try
it this way:
In a turn, the front wheel track will be to the outside of the turn, whereas
the rear wheel track will appear on the inside of the turn.  I guess this
could be restated as "the rear wheel is pulled through the turn".

Incidentally, a correction in my previous post:
"On a left turn, the front wheel would point *left*, the motorcycle will
then fall to the left...".  The indicated word (*left*) should read "right".
Typo on my part.

--
Philip D'Amato

00 ZX-6R
00 S4




> >As for riding the motorcycle through a puddle and observing it's tracks:
> >At speeds great enough for counter-steering to be in effect, you will see
> >the front wheel track to the outside of arc described by the rear wheel.

> I always thought this was because the rear wheel 'followed' through the
turn.
> By the time it's pulled through, the front wheel is now at a greater
angle.
> Thus, the rear wheel is pulled at a greater angle...
> But what do *I* know...?<g>

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26...

> Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.


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