rec.autos.simulators

Ok, having read Alison's preview of GPL I realise it's time to bite the
bullet. Just as Su27 has forced me to accept I *do* need HOTAS controls to
get maximum enjoyment/performance, I think GPL will need a similarly
serious approach.

My joystick driving days are numbered. But what wheel/pedal setup's best?
I've never found anywhere with a full array of kit to try out, and when
I've found any wheels in retail outlets they've always been free-standing,
or linked to Screamer2 or something similarly unhelpful.

From what I've seen over the last year or so, Thrustmaster seem to do a
fairly good setup  (Formula 1 racing wheel, about 125 rrp) but I've seen
the Digital Edge (F1 SIM, 160ish) setup raved about as well. I believe it
comes in a "compact" flavour as well, but I've no idea what the difference
is.

Anyone got any preferences they'd like to share? (Not interested in
anything involving goats). Thought I'd ask here rather than go hunting for
reviews -- they often seem to be done by journalists who think
International Rally's a sim.

TIA,
Andrew

I personally own a TM F1RW and really like it. I had a T2 which I sold
recently. The F1RW is much better because the spring resistance of the wheel
is much higher, allowing for better control. The pedals take a little
getting used to, but are very good too.

One of my friends owns a Digital Edge. The only advantage of this wheel is
it's paddle shifters. The overall construction of this wheel is not very
good. The steering shaft is attached to the desk panel with 2 screws, which
allows for considerable torsion. Also, after only a couple of weeks, the
springs of the wheel have totally given up. It won't turn back to its
central position anymore. Finally, the pedals are positioned horizontally,
which makes them very hard to control precisely.

Overall, I'd say go for the TM F1RW. Or, when you have the money, check out
the TSW or ECCI. As I have no experience with these, please consult someone
else.

Good luck!

Peter Kasbergen

Interesting to hear this, I use an F1 Sim and have done without problems
for over a year.  Yeah there is a certain amount of play in the steering
colum but this can be reduced with some judicious packing, also clamp
the panel to the desk and make sure there is a good amount of weight on
it.

The pedals can be adjusted for position and travel as well remember.

I can only recommend the F1 Sim in the highest but don't touch the
compact version.  The pedal box is plastic not the pressed steel of the
full one.

You're not the only one to recommend the F1 Sim setup. I guess I'm as
concerned about support (spares etc) as anything else, and they seem to be
able to match TM in this respect. Mind you. I was nearly tempted by a TM
T2 in Dixons' today... purely on the "I can take it home *now*" factor.

Still, GPL isn't out yet... there's no rush <fidgets impatiently>

Andrew

I went shopping for a wheel last weekend. I compared everything
available in a number of stores. I ended up with the TM T2. Got it for
under 80 quid in the Byte store and it included GP2 which saved me a
further 20 quid. I think I've made a good choice. It's well built and
the pedals appear reasonably robust. Tried it with TOCA GP2 and SODA and
it works fine. I'd recommend it as a good value option, if you haven't
got money to burn.

Jeff.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeff McCall    http://www.jmccall.demon.co.uk

 The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it's open!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The T2 is a pretty good wheel, i've been running mine hard for over 2 years
now. Be aware your going to have to replace parts from time to time,
depending on how you use it. I'd highly recommend ordering spare gas and
brake springs, and spare pots from TM, keep em handy so you don't have much
downtime when they fail.
I definitely think i got my money's worth out of my T2, all I'm waiting for
now is for the TSW2 to be released, time for a step up for me in driving
controls.
--
Don Burnette
I-65 Racing
Dburn on Ten

Having used the F1Simm and Thrustmaster F1, I'd have to say there's little
between them in terms of gameplay.  If anything, the Thrustmaster "feels"
better.

For me, the main appeal of the F1Simm was the gear-change paddles (though I
still use the auto gearbox ;-).  Also, its pretty substantial (being made of
metal) and appears to have good build quality.  But, in reality, its not
significantly better than a Thurstmaster.  One MAJOR failing is the fixing
method.  The idea is that you leave the mounting board under your vid all the
time, and use quick-release screws to attach/remove the wheel.  But within 5
(yes - FIVE) minutes of starting to use the wheel, the***receptors on the
board had pulled out of the wood!  I eventually did away with the board
altogether, and replaced it with one of my own making.  The fixing is now fine
- but this seems a bit ***for a 150quid wheel!  The wheel itself feels good,
and the padals are usefull.  But it does not seem to centre well.  The pedals
are GREAT - well built and comfortable.

The Thrustmaster F1 is a significant improvement on the T2.  The wheel is more
contoured and comfortable, feels more accurate, and has a GREAT quick-relase
camping system which works a treat (even on desks with a lip at the front).
It has thumb-BUTTONS which could be used as gear-change paddles if required.
The pedals also feel better than on the T2.  BUT ... !WARNING! .... a friend's
pedals lost their resistance in less than 3 months.  Probably just a spring
bust - but again, not a good sign!

In summary, although the F1Simm is sexier, I'm not convinced its worth the
extra money.

The F1Simm compact uses a similar wheel (though the top is cut off - like REAL
F1 wheels :-), but the pedals seem VERY cheapo.  They're plastic, and look
just like large buttons on the baseplate - almost like very large keyboard
keys!  They may work fine - but I doubt it!

Regards,
Andrew Jackson (Berkshire, UK)

t>...

Well actually their GP1 wheel which I had is like a F1 wheel in that it has
paddles but since it has no pedals you use these for gas & brake. So having
the buttons on the front of the wheel is really the best place for them and
they feel quite natural. Now I have an ECCI CDS2 which has pedals and four
buttons on the front of the wheel for shifting or whatever you like. I
think this is an excellent way to shift its quite fast and feels great! I
cant imagine taking a hand off the wheel to shift. BTW I have always
wondered about the wheels with stick shifters on the side are the notched?
I only ask as I know some sims like N2 have 4 gears and GP types have 6. If
your thinking of a TM type wheel for sims I can say when I used the GP1 it
was ok. But if you can see your way clear to a ECCI you will never regret
it.
Mike

Hi Andrew  MacPherson,

The F1Simm is a mass produced version of the GP500 (?) system.  I believe the
original was a much better product (though I saw a serious complaint by a GP500
user on r.a.s earlier this week).  It might be better to go foor the original
if you can, though I'm sure it's more expensive.

Personally I recommend trial and hardship(ment) on your way to an ECCI CDS2.  
They are expensive to get into the country, but worth the money.

BTW where abouts in Berks is are you Mr Jackson?

Brian (Bucks)

--
remove 'bye' from address to reply

Thanks for the feedback. I must admit that at one point I nearly sent off
for an F1 Sim.... then I remembered how long it takes me to earn that
money and changed my mind again :-)

Andrew... indecisive (I think)

Of course, the sim has to support shifting gears with a joystick axis:
Supported in ICR2, N2, F1RS
Not supported in CPR, GP2

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

You know, I wish I'd never started this thread. Back then I thought 150
was a lot of money to pay for a controller setup. Now I realise it's the
tip of the iceberg. The ECCI and Thomas Enterprises setups look superb,
and the prospect of buying something that'll last indefinitely with
minimal maintenance has to be attractive... assuming I stay interested in
sims. But then it was early sims which got me into computers in the 1st
place (I guess it was ten years ago when I was driving Jeff Crammond's
Revs on the BBC Micro), so that's probably a safe bet.

Thanks to you Brian, and to Mike & the others who've managed to expand my
horizons *way* beyond my anticipated budget :-)

This has actually made me think seriously about my approach to my PC and
sims in general. This year I expect to buy just two bits of leisure
software: Su27 v2.0, and GPL. Both (all being well) will represent the
cutting edge of PC simulation, and if past experience is anything to go
by, I won't be spending money on their more mediocre opposition. Serious
controllers for both sim passions is very expensive, as is the hardware to
run them on. But if the controllers last much longer than the PC hardware
(which we're all used investing in regularly) this probably isn't
something to be too scared of.

Of course, the higher the investment, the more certain you have to be
you're getting it right!

Heh, I hope my boss never sees this. The other month I laughed at him when
he told me how much he'd paid for a basic TM setup... but then he was
using it for Screamer Rally (not that there's anything wrong with SR for a
bit of gentle fun :-)

Andrew (Kent,UK)

Stuart (Bucks)

--
Stuart Booth
Somewhere in Buckinghamshire, England, UK

Note: My email address is in disguise! Remove trailing Z