rec.autos.simulators

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

Jason Moy

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Jason Moy » Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:00:19

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:40:26 +1000, "Damien Smith"


>25% might be OK for the brake, but I prefer 50% (or full linear) for
>throttle.

Hm, I didn't realize 50% was treated as full linear.  I'm going to try
that out...

Jason

Jason Moy

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Jason Moy » Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:25:49

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:40:26 +1000, "Damien Smith"


>25% might be OK for the brake, but I prefer 50% (or full linear) for
>throttle.

Ok, I just set the axes to 50% (which does a better job of synching
the onscreen wheel to my ms wheel) and lowered my steerling lock by
about a third and wow.  First lap out at the A-1 ring I lost it in the
last turn, losing about a full second going into the first turn, and
ended up with a few hundredths of my personal best by knocking a full
second off the rest of the way.  Great car control, throttle/brake
feel much better.  I always assumed 25% was better because of the huge
wheel lock in the default setups, but messing around a bit 50% feels
much better, I can go faster with less effort.  Very nice.

Jason

Phoenix Knig

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Phoenix Knig » Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:50:23


> "Larry"
>   Sorry I forgot two important additions.
>         6thly.  Enable the full rate physics by editing your driver.plr file
>         7thly:  FrameRate FrameRate FrameRate.  Get your average fps up
> there..and I do mean UP there.  40's are jerky and not good.  80's are
> smooth, and according to David Powell, the 150 range is sweet.
> dave henrie

That can't be right, surely? As far as I understand it, you shouldn't
be able to tell (visually at least) a difference between any frame
rates 'above' 30fps. So whether it's 30, 40, 80 or 150 it should all
be smooth.

Anything under 30 is where you start to notice the slowdown.

How the hell any of you are getting anything near 40fps is beyond me,
cos' my system's a hell of a PC but it struggles just to make the high
20's!

Dave Henri

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Dave Henri » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:43:26



  In the past I would agree with you about how over 30 SHOULD be smooth.
Although there are plenty here who claim to be able to see the difference
between 30 fps and 60 fps.  I just noticed a stuttering, and others have had
the same symptom, that for me went away after I got the fps UP.  I don't
know the cause the stutter  but it's banished from my system for now at
least.
    With F1 2k2 for me it came from lower screen rez and turning down the
graphic details.  Just what is your "hell" of a pc?  :)  cpu and video card?
Maybe we can goose it some.
dave henrie

Mikko ?mm?l

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Mikko ?mm?l » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:27:29


Thanks for these tips. These helped a lot to increase the feeling and
general manuerability...

.mikko

--

/* reality is an illusion that occurs
due to the lack of *** */

Damien Smit

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Damien Smit » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:01:34

30fps is adequate to give an illusion of motion, though mainly on films
where motion kind of blurs from one frame to the next due to shutter speed.
However, PCs are so precise with the drawing of each frame, you don't really
get an illusion of smooth motion until approximately 45-50fps.  60fps is the
mark that many game makers aim for - particularly for game consoles where
the TV redraws the screen 60 times per second.  If they can maintain a rate
at or above 60, they can lock (or sync) the frame rate to the TV's redraw
(refresh) rate of 60/s and give the smoothest motion possible.

Jason Moy

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Jason Moy » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:47:02

On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:01:34 +1000, "Damien Smith"


>60fps is the
>mark that many game makers aim for - particularly for game consoles where
>the TV redraws the screen 60 times per second.

Doesn't an analog TV only redraw half the frame on each refresh?  I
was always under the assumption that the actual framerate was more
like 27-30 because of interlacing.

Jason

Damien Smit

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Damien Smit » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:01:30

No, not really.  You're still seeing 60 fields or "half-frames" per second.
Though, if a game generates 30fps, it will simply display the even lines of
each frame for the first field then the odd lines of that same frame for the
second field.  Games that run at 60fps show the even lines of one frame then
the odd lines of the next frame so you effectively get to see 60 different
frames in a second, even if you are only seeing half of the frame at a time.

Phoenix Knig

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Phoenix Knig » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:34:59


>   In the past I would agree with you about how over 30 SHOULD be smooth.
> Although there are plenty here who claim to be able to see the difference
> between 30 fps and 60 fps.  I just noticed a stuttering, and others have had
> the same symptom, that for me went away after I got the fps UP.  I don't
> know the cause the stutter  but it's banished from my system for now at
> least.

If you notice a stutter it would indicate that the frame rate has
dropped 'below' 30fps. If it's smooth sailing on a clear track with
little to push your system, you're probably running at over 30fps, but
if you're noticing a slow-down when lots of things are happening on
screen, that would be your frame rate dropping...

As far as I know.

Iain Mackenzi

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Iain Mackenzi » Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:44:15

As we have discussed in other posts, the 'stutter' that is talked about in
F1 2002 is not - in my opinion - a fps issue. It is a very definite miss a
frame every second or so which seems to affect some people but not all. It
is also not fps dependent as I have always had good rates (see below).
I have suffered from this, and a reboot always cures it for me - until the
next time!

I don't understand why some people seem to have low frame rates. I have a


Hmmm...
Iain

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MadDAW

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by MadDAW » Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:01:23

> I don't understand why some people seem to have low frame rates. I have a
> Athlon 2100XP with GF3 Ti500 and get 50-60 fps around Monza in a full race


> Hmmm...
> Iain


alot more to performance than CPU and video card. The motherboard chipset
has alot to do with it as well as ram quailty and speed. For example I have
an AMD chipset based motherboard. Its not as fast as a VIA based board, but
then again it doesn't crash like one either. :)

MadDAWG

Iain Mackenzi

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Iain Mackenzi » Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:45:00

I agree, obviously there are other factors, but the CPU and graphics card
are usually the main ones. Some people are experiencing very low frame rates
on well specced systems so there must be something else going on here.
Iain


> alot more to performance than CPU and video card. The motherboard chipset
> has alot to do with it as well as ram quailty and speed. For example I
have
> an AMD chipset based motherboard. Its not as fast as a VIA based board,
but
> then again it doesn't crash like one either. :)

> MadDAWG

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MadDAW

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by MadDAW » Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:18:20


  There is so many "little" things that can effect performance  Here is just
a few things that popped in my head. Motherboard chipset and drivers, Add-on
Graphics, Higher poly count models, Sound card overhead, RAM quality/speed,
Video Card driver version, Operating system. While you'll never get a 1 ghz
CPU and GF3 card to run as fast as a 1.5 ghz CPU with a GF4 I have seen the
opposite. Another thing that really gets me is how many people will say they
have the settings "maxed" to only find out later they had the world detail
at 50%. I'm not saying you are, but check out some of the FPS threads at the
official NR2002 board.

MadDAWG

Larr

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Larr » Thu, 26 Sep 2002 04:55:29

Well, those MSFFW settings indeed help the over all feel of the steering,
but the feel of this game is still funky.

As someone else said, it's REALLY funky once you are in a slide.

-Larry


> I'll try that.  Thanks!

> -Larry




> > >I wish I could tell you what it is, but I can't put my finger on it.
All
> I
> > >can say is something just doesn't feel right with the physics model in
> this
> > >game to me.

> > >It just doesn't feel 'right'.

> > Ah, an ISI n00b. =)  The key to getting f1 2002 to feel "right" is the
> > wheel setup.

> > You have a microsoft wheel no?  Try these settings, it's what I've
> > been using and I'm pretty picky:

> > Speed Sensitivity - 0%
> > Lock all the Axes and set them to 25%
> > Lock all the Deadzones and set them to 0%

> > From there I'd adjust the axis sensitivity up and down until the wheel
> > movement matches the movement of your wheel.  With a ms sidewinder 25%
> > for all axes seems just about perfect, but YMMV.  You definitely want
> > deadzones and speed sensivity disabled unless you're using a joystick.

> > Jason

Larr

F12002 - Something is bugging me...

by Larr » Thu, 26 Sep 2002 04:58:29

It's not that kind of stutter...

It's a quick, very momentary pause about 1/10th of a second in length.  Like
it's going to the hard drive for something.

-Larry




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