I can BEAT the AI at 102% at Michigan. Havn't worked at Cali. Just get in
there and work on your setups.
BTW, this is from starting at the back of the field in a 20 car race.
news:FPi3a.1089$bU6.146636@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Well first off Jay this is a public newsgroup, so I am addressing my
request
> to everyone. I said from the outset that if it simply that Bob Stanley
> doesn't know how to set-up a car for NR2003 and others do have set-ups
that
> you can run competitively at Michigan and California, then so be it.
> However, you claimed you can run more or less equally well against the AI
at
> these two tracks--as everyone should be able to if the gameplay was
tweaked
> properly. Let's be honest, they are probably the two easiest tracks and
> they are so similar that you cannot argue that there is some special trick
> or skill required at one that isn't required at the other.
> I have never found set-ups in N4, NR2002 or so far in NR2003 that permit
> this. Bob Stanley has publicly stated that the AI speeds are unrealistic
> (this was in the past referring to N4 and NR2002) at these two tracks and
> that he doesn't even bother trying to adjust his set-up to duel with them
at
> 100%--he just sets it up to be the best it can to the best of his ability.
> It appears to me that NR2003 is exactly the same in this regard, but you
> deny that. I am sincerely deferring to your expertise and experience, but
> in the absence of any evidence, I am asking you to contribute just two
> set-ups, for the two easiest tracks.
> If you don't want to provide that, I understand, especially if you are in
a
> league. But perhaps you could find ANY set-up wiz out there who has a
> set-up that works equally well at Michigan and California against 100% AI.
> I haven't been able to find one, but I am sure you will know more than me.
> ANY person's set-ups that work equally well at these two tracks will prove
> you are right and I am wrong.
> Thanks,
> Marc
> "Jay Taylor" <jma...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:tJ_2a.1637$8s5.1000@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> > So this all comes down to looking for setups?
> > To be honest I really dont feel like just tossing out setups, after the
> > amount of time I've put into them. I'm not saying their are anything
> > special, but they work great for me. I happen to run in a highly
> > competitive open setup league, and so I guess I tend not to want to just
> > give them. Agree with it or not, this is my main reasoning. Beyond
that
> I
> > really dont feel any need to "prove" anything. I'll discuss the AI, and
> do
> > my best to explain what I can. If you dont agree with me, thats your
right
> > I'm just trying to offer what I know. Its seems so far that I've tried
my
> > best to answer your questions, and all we are down to is you asking for
my
> > setups. So save the "put your money where your mouth is" crap for
someone
> > else.
> > Jay
> > "Marc Collins" <marc_coll...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:Sl_2a.32947$Ww1.800055@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Oh well, I guess no one is willing to put their money where there
mouth
> is
> > > by ponying up a couple of set-ups.
> > > Marc
> > > "Jay Taylor" <jma...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > > news:Veg2a.3869$dl.1715@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > First of all if you want to match up verse the AI in practice you
> better
> > > > load a qual setup not a race, as through out testing you would
always
> > see
> > > a
> > > > few AI doing more or less qual runs, while others were more in race
> > trim.
> > > > Practice is just that, you wont find a hard line on exactly what
they
> > will
> > > > run for the race.
> > > > As for ai_grip_modifier, and other settings the reason is simple.
The
> > AI
> > > do
> > > > not run on exactly the same physics the player does. If they did you
> > might
> > > > be able to run with a dozen cars max on the fastest of systems. So
> they
> > > > have a somewhat simplifed physics model to keep CPU overhead
> reasonable.
> > > > Therefore after you have lines run for a track that work the way you
> > want
> > > > them to, and dont have any choke points that mess up the AI, you use
> > these
> > > > values to fine tune the AI to get them to drive the track as close
to
> > the
> > > > way the typical player would. These are crucial in smoothing out
the
> > AI,
> > > > and keeping them in line with the player. If everything was equal
> > physics
> > > > wise, and the AI had the same knowledge the player does about
getting
> > > around
> > > > the track then these values wouldn't be needed. However until
someone
> > > finds
> > > > away to do all this and make it run well on a normal system, you
have
> to
> > > > make adjustments, and try to dial things in with what you have to
work
> > > with.
> > > > Jay Taylor
> > > > "Marc Collins" <marc_coll...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:Lpf2a.30455$ns3.436218@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > What I mean by Voodoo is things like ai_accel_modifier...the
layman
> > > would
> > > > > ask why would that vary from on track to the next? Same goes for
> > > > > ai_grip_modifier...if the track surface has a certain grip,
varying
> > from
> > > > > track to track of course, why would you need a modifier for this?
> > > > > I have no doubt that many, many hours, sweat and tears were poured
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > effort. But I think I explained why the result is less than
> > > satisfactory.
> > > > > And I will eat my hat and shut up about this forever as soon as
you
> or
> > > > > someone else provides two "fast" set-ups, one for Michigan and one
> for
> > > > > California, that permit an experienced user/driver/racer to hit
the
> > top
> > > 10
> > > > > in each with approximately the same effort...since that would be
> > > realistic
> > > > > and also demonstrate balanced gameplay as a bonus.
> > > > > If I can't do a single top-10 lap at Michigan in practice mode
with
> > the
> > > AI
> > > > > at 100% when I can beat the AI at 100% in GPL at every track
(except
> > the
> > > > > 'Ring) and easily do top 5's at the sister track of California,
then
> > > > > something is wrong...and it ain't me. It's either the game or the
> > > set-up
> > > > > and I am more than willing to believe you that it is the set-up
> since
> > > you
> > > > > are intimately involved with the title and I am a lowly
> > purchaser/user.
> > > > > As I asked in the other part of this thread, please attach your
two
> > > > set-ups
> > > > > and we'll see what results.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Marc
> > > > > "Jay Taylor" <jma...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:wKa2a.3765$Ly6.1187@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > > > Over looked?
> > > > > > If you had any idea the amount of time that went into play
> balancing
> > > > > NR2003
> > > > > > I doubt you'd say it was over looked. Perhaps the settings
don't
> > work
> > > > > > perfectly for everyone, I'll agree thats possible. However they
> are
> > > > > > certainly close, and should provide enjoyable racing. I'm sorry
> if
> > > you
> > > > > feel
> > > > > > otherwise.
> > > > > > The effort was certainly put into it, and the beta team felt the
> > > tracks
> > > > > were
> > > > > > balanced pretty well. I'm not sure what you mean by "Voodoo
> > settings"
> > > > but
> > > > > I
> > > > > > dont remember the use of shaman totems, shrunken heads, or bat
> wings
> > > > being
> > > > > > involved in the balancing of NR2003 <G>
> > > > > > Jay Taylor
> > > > > > "Marc Collins" <marc_coll...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:Gsa2a.358$3g1.52683@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > > > > These are the "voodoo" settings that Papy tweaks to come up
with
> > the
> > > > > > > "balanced" playability at each track, which unfortunately has
> been
> > > > > > seriously
> > > > > > > imbalanced in N3, N4, NR2002 and now, finally, NR2003.
> > > > > > > The rest of the sim is so damned good that it annoys me that
> > > something
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > this is overlooked year after year. Oval racing isn't my cup
of
> > tea
> > > > to
> > > > > > > start with, but if I have to go to a track and practise and
> twist
> > my
> > > > > brain
> > > > > > > to drive a car that has a twisted to the side unnatural
set-up,
> I
> > > get
> > > > > > really
> > > > > > > annoyed when my sense of accomplishment or competence (as
> measured
> > > by
> > > > > how
> > > > > > > well I do against the only benchmark available--the AI at that
> > > track)
> > > > is
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > much of a crap shoot as surviving an online pick-up race.
> > > > > > > Marc
> > > > > > > "John DiFool" <jdif...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:3E491723.9B016299@earthlink.net...
> > > > > > > > Marc Collins wrote:
> > > > > > > > > So I rest my case...each and every user needing to do a
> > detailed
> > > > > > > research
> > > > > > > > > project just to enjoy the main premise of the game--a
> > > championship
> > > > > > > > > season--is ridiculous. No wonder so many don't bother and
> > just
> > > > play
> > > > > > > online.
> > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, 90% of the people playing online drive like
> > they
> > > > > should
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > been forced to complete a few races offline and actually
> > finish
> > > > > higher
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > 43rd before being allowed online.
> > > > > > > > > When the average experienced user can take the fast set-up
> at
> > > > > > California
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > Michigan and achieve roughly the same results
...
