rec.autos.simulators

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

Nick

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by Nick » Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:25:46







> >> Sportscars and stockcars aren't the same.  They're closer that F1 &
> >> stockcars, but there isn't a european equivilent to NASCAR over there.
> >> Yet.

> >There kinda is, it's called ASCAR. It's about as popular as NASCAR is
> >outside the US, (ie) nobody cares.

> Okay, looks like I sit corrected.  It's unfortunate that it's not
> picked up over there, but, this isn't a perfect world.

> Mike

Correction, now it's called something like "Days of Thunder Racing" or
something equally lame. They race Rockingham and Lausitz over and over and
over...
Mike Donnelly J

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by Mike Donnelly J » Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:42:56

Sounds like they need more real tracks over there...  :)  Of course,
given that going in circles seems to be an American/Canadian thing,
that might not be such a good idea either.

Mike









>> >> Sportscars and stockcars aren't the same.  They're closer that F1 &
>> >> stockcars, but there isn't a european equivilent to NASCAR over there.
>> >> Yet.

>> >There kinda is, it's called ASCAR. It's about as popular as NASCAR is
>> >outside the US, (ie) nobody cares.

>> Okay, looks like I sit corrected.  It's unfortunate that it's not
>> picked up over there, but, this isn't a perfect world.

>> Mike

>Correction, now it's called something like "Days of Thunder Racing" or
>something equally lame. They race Rockingham and Lausitz over and over and
>over...

Moa'Di

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by Moa'Di » Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:48:37

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 02:04:18 GMT, Mike Donnelly Jr


>My biggest problem with F1 is if Shumie was in a Tyrell or
>other back grid car, he couldn't overcome the weakness of the car with
>superior driving skills.  At best he'd get a couple of points for the
>team here and there.  Which would bring it up a few slots in the
>constructors ranks, allow them to get better personell (& heavier
>sponsorship to fund it) and it 3-4 seasons they'd be challenging for
>the title.  BUT, only after 2-3 seasons of building and making *better
>cars*.  The car is the first question, then the driving skill of the
>driver.  

As it is anywhere outside one-make series - there are haves and
have-nots. However, Scumacher was immediately obvious when he was in a
Jordan, as Senna was instantly noticable in a Toleman. The driver
makes a huge difference. Just look at the Monaco winners over the
years - Senna, Prost and Schumacher have dominated the last couple of
decades at that track.
gddd

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by gddd » Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:25:09

errr   do you remember the shape Ferrari was in when Michael got there?  Not
Tyrell material, but he certainly made that team an unbeatable force.  (I'm
not a fan of Michael's, but you have to give credit where credit is due).



.  My biggest problem with F1 is if Shumie was in a Tyrell or

Mike Donnelly J

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by Mike Donnelly J » Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:28:48

Yes, they had problems, but, unlike Tyrell, they have a storied past
to help them recruit people (like Michael) and they have a budget that
can overcome the costs of doing business.  It did take them a bit of
time to come to their present, near unbeatable form.  Part of that was
getting the right people in the right places.  

I stand by my original assertation that if Michael was put into the
Tyrell tommorrow, he'd not win a race the rest of the year - despite
being the best driver there.  It would take a few years of his being
their driver to get everything in order to make Tyrell a power.
That's the way it is.


>errr   do you remember the shape Ferrari was in when Michael got there?  Not
>Tyrell material, but he certainly made that team an unbeatable force.  (I'm
>not a fan of Michael's, but you have to give credit where credit is due).



>.  My biggest problem with F1 is if Shumie was in a Tyrell or
>> other back grid car, he couldn't overcome the weakness of the car with
>> superior driving skills.  At best he'd get a couple of points for the
>> team here and there.  Which would bring it up a few slots in the
>> constructors ranks, allow them to get better personell (& heavier
>> sponsorship to fund it) and it 3-4 seasons they'd be challenging for
>> the title.  BUT, only after 2-3 seasons of building and making *better
>> cars*.  The car is the first question, then the driving skill of the
>> driver.

Jan Verschuere

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by Jan Verschuere » Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:04:46

I'm going to be a pedant and point out that Tyrrell is no longer an F1 team
(and hasn't been for more than a decade). The remnants of the team were
bought by Stewart, which then became Jaguar I believe.

Jan.
=---

Ian

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by Ian » Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:27:36

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:04:46 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"


>"Mike Donnelly Jr" wrote...
>> Yes, they had problems, but, unlike Tyrell, they have a storied
>> past to help them recruit people (like Michael) and they have a
>> budget that can overcome the costs of doing business.  It did
>> take them a bit of time to come to their present, near unbeatable
>> form.  Part of that was getting the right people in the right places.

>> I stand by my original assertation that if Michael was put into the
>> Tyrell tommorrow, he'd not win a race the rest of the year -
>> despite being the best driver there.  It would take a few years of
>> his being their driver to get everything in order to make Tyrell a
>> power. That's the way it is.

>I'm going to be a pedant and point out that Tyrrell is no longer an F1 team
>(and hasn't been for more than a decade). The remnants of the team were
>bought by Stewart, which then became Jaguar I believe.

>Jan.
>=---

I'll be even more of a pendant (!), and point out that Tyrrell was
bought out by British American Tobacco and became what is now the BAR
team.  Stewart started from scratch, and, yes, eventually became
Jaguar.  
Mike Donnelly J

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by Mike Donnelly J » Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:48:47

Sorry.  Okay, replace Tyrell with Jaguar.  They're still in the same
position on the grid and in the points.    The tradition continues.  

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:04:46 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"


>"Mike Donnelly Jr" wrote...
>> Yes, they had problems, but, unlike Tyrell, they have a storied
>> past to help them recruit people (like Michael) and they have a
>> budget that can overcome the costs of doing business.  It did
>> take them a bit of time to come to their present, near unbeatable
>> form.  Part of that was getting the right people in the right places.

>> I stand by my original assertation that if Michael was put into the
>> Tyrell tommorrow, he'd not win a race the rest of the year -
>> despite being the best driver there.  It would take a few years of
>> his being their driver to get everything in order to make Tyrell a
>> power. That's the way it is.

>I'm going to be a pedant and point out that Tyrrell is no longer an F1 team
>(and hasn't been for more than a decade). The remnants of the team were
>bought by Stewart, which then became Jaguar I believe.

>Jan.
>=---

gddd

OT - Gordon/Montoya at Indy

by gddd » Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:40:38

You're right, I misunderstood your original post.  No driver in the
present-form F1 could do this, either now or 50 years ago.  But also, in F1,
at least with the original 10-6-4-3-2-1 scoring, scoring just one point is
an accomplishment.  Michael impressed well back in 1992 with the Benneton
racing against Senna and Prost.

PS  Ayrton Senna was the best F1 driver ever imo.



> Yes, they had problems, but, unlike Tyrell, they have a storied past
> to help them recruit people (like Michael) and they have a budget that
> can overcome the costs of doing business.  It did take them a bit of
> time to come to their present, near unbeatable form.  Part of that was
> getting the right people in the right places.

> I stand by my original assertation that if Michael was put into the
> Tyrell tommorrow, he'd not win a race the rest of the year - despite
> being the best driver there.  It would take a few years of his being
> their driver to get everything in order to make Tyrell a power.
> That's the way it is.


> >errr   do you remember the shape Ferrari was in when Michael got there?
Not
> >Tyrell material, but he certainly made that team an unbeatable force.
(I'm
> >not a fan of Michael's, but you have to give credit where credit is due).



> >.  My biggest problem with F1 is if Shumie was in a Tyrell or
> >> other back grid car, he couldn't overcome the weakness of the car with
> >> superior driving skills.  At best he'd get a couple of points for the
> >> team here and there.  Which would bring it up a few slots in the
> >> constructors ranks, allow them to get better personell (& heavier
> >> sponsorship to fund it) and it 3-4 seasons they'd be challenging for
> >> the title.  BUT, only after 2-3 seasons of building and making *better
> >> cars*.  The car is the first question, then the driving skill of the
> >> driver.


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