rec.autos.simulators

by **Joachim Trens** » Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:41:56

> I'm doing a story on computer *** accessories and I want to write
> about the best, fanciest, most expensive racing wheels on the market.
> So I figured I'd ask you guys. Which of these products do you consider
> the best? What companies should I be talking to?

The best Force Feedback wheel is probably the Logitech Wingman Formula
Force, equipped with Jens Schumachers ball bearing kit. This is Jens'
site: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The LWFF was built some six years ago and I'm still using it (I've
purchased several used ones to get spare parts). It is not being built
anymore, but it is so good that I've tested all the mainstream FF
wheels, and none equalled the old LWFF.

I'm combining this wheel with ECCI's E3000 pedals, nicknamed tractor
pedals :) but when I used them, they certainly become a very fast tractor :)

Not sure if this is interesting for you as well as it's the opposite of
fancy and new, but maybe you'd like to get a view at the other end of
the spectrum as well (trusty old custom gear...)

Achim

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:57:54

***ugly, yes. (There's no reason this kind of vehicle can't look great -
does anybody remember the Lamborghini Panther?). A Diesel version would
burn a lot less fuel, since these dealies (at least in the military) spend
most of their time idling...when Diesels merely sip fuel.

I'm no defender of the Hummer...if you mean the military version. (I drove
the pickup-based H2 the other day; it's quite nice.) I have been such a
strong critic of our military hardware - like the M16 (unreliable and
unlethal), the Abrams (maintenance and logistics probs), the Osprey (doesn't
work), the Humvee (too big for CQB in rubble-filled urban areas), the F-22
(we shoulda picked the F-23, which was optimized for asymmetrical warfare),
the Crusader (we shoulda gone w. Gerry Bull's arty pieces), the Stryker (the
S. Africans make much better wheeled APCs ), and the Bradley (like the
pocket battleship, it falls between the 2 stools of 'outrun what it can't
outgun...and v.v.') - that I was for years Car and Driver magazine's
Military Affairs Editor (I still have a drawerful of biz cards).

> > BTW, the RW Hummer does one thing extremely well: survives on the
> > battlefield (read "Black Hawk Down").

> There's two other things is does extremely well: Looking butt-ugly and
> burning ridiculous amounts of fuel as soon as you even think of
> turning the ignition key 8-P

> Cheers, uwe

> --
> mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
> Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
> GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by **Steve Smit** » Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:58:58

He asked for our help, numbnuts.

> > I'm doing a story on computer *** accessories and I want to write
> > about the best, fanciest, most expensive racing wheels on the market.
> > So I figured I'd ask you guys. Which of these products do you consider
> > the best? What companies should I be talking to?

> > While I'm at it, would any of you be interested in letting me interview
> > you for my story? I'd want to include your name, age, occupation and
> > the community where you live. Just drop me a line if you're interested.

> > I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks.

> > Hiawatha Bray
> > Technology Reporter
> > Boston Globe
> > 135 Morrissey Blvd.
> > P.O. Box 55819
> > Boston, MA 02205-5819 USA
> > 617-929-3119 voice
> > 617-929-3183 fax

> > Blog: www.monitortan.com
> > Recent writings: www.boston.com/business/technology/bray

> Do you ever do real research or interviews or do you just always steal
from
> newsgroups?

by **fredrickso** » Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:02:01

Just realize the MOMO Force(good) and MOMO Racing(average) are two different
wheels.

> I'm doing a story on computer *** accessories and I want to write
> about the best, fanciest, most expensive racing wheels on the market.
> So I figured I'd ask you guys. Which of these products do you consider
> the best? What companies should I be talking to?

> While I'm at it, would any of you be interested in letting me interview
> you for my story? I'd want to include your name, age, occupation and
> the community where you live. Just drop me a line if you're interested.

> I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks.

> Hiawatha Bray
> Technology Reporter
> Boston Globe
> 135 Morrissey Blvd.
> P.O. Box 55819
> Boston, MA 02205-5819 USA
> 617-929-3119 voice
> 617-929-3183 fax

> Blog: www.monitortan.com
> Recent writings: www.boston.com/business/technology/bray

> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Duff Ma** » Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:07:42

> ...
> > Do you ever do real research or interviews or do you just always steal
from
> > newsgroups?

> To me he seems to be doing real research and interviews in this
> newsgroup, which seems to be the intelligent way of preparing an article
> about this topic as in this NG he'll find the knowledgeable people.

> Why do you call that stealing?

> Achim

Because day one of journalism school you are taught that newsgroup
research/online interviews/e-mail interviews are only to be used in
worst-case scenarios...

by **Hiawatha Bra** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 03:23:31

This is wonderful stuff...thanks much.

By the way, I keep seeing the word Momo being used. What the heck is a
Momo?

Thanks again!

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

by **Barry Posne** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 03:36:30

> This is wonderful stuff...thanks much.

> By the way, I keep seeing the word Momo being used. What the heck is a
> Momo?

Momo is an Italian company that makes actual race car steering wheels
(among other things.)

They have licensed their name to Logitech for sim steering wheels.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=13,CONT...

bp

by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 03:49:49

Momo is an acronym (?) for Moretti Motors, a racing outfit in Italy run by
Gianpiero (?) Moretti, a former racer. Among other enterprises, Momo makes
steering wheels for real race cars, like Formula One Ferraris. Logitech (a
Swiss peripherals maker) licensed the name for a pair of FF (force-feedback)
wheels, referenced above by Achim Trensz: the first one, the Momo Force (an
excellent wheel) was replaced with the Momo Racing (mmm, not so good, as Jon
Stewart would say). The Momo series was preceded by the LWMFF wheels
(Logitech Wingman Formula Force; the "Wingman" reference is to their line of
flight-sim joysticks), which likewise came in two variants, the better one
was again the first one (dubbed 'Ol Red' by us netizens 'cuz of its
red-*** rim) and the later, lesser version, which had a yellow rim. As I
mentioned earlier, the Ol' Red wheels are the most beloved of all the
commercial FF products, especially when equipped with the ball-bearing
modification created by Jens Schumi (the stock bearing had a grungy sleeve
bearing which made it feel more like a pepper grinder than a racing car).

Here's a clip of the Momo Force from an Italian site:

www.amr.es/.../premiados/ rec_momoforce-pcw.htm

Here's a piccy of the Momo Racing from a Finnish site:

www.skenegroup.net/ fi/artikkelit/MOMO_racing

> This is wonderful stuff...thanks much.

> By the way, I keep seeing the word Momo being used. What the heck is a
> Momo?

> Thanks again!

> > Just realize the MOMO Force(good) and MOMO Racing(average) are two
different
> > wheels.

> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **SimRace** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:18:00

> > This is wonderful stuff...thanks much.

> > By the way, I keep seeing the word Momo being used. What the heck is a
> > Momo?

> Momo is an Italian company that makes actual race car steering wheels
> (among other things.)

> They have licensed their name to Logitech for sim steering wheels.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=13,CONT...
030

And, Momos are still available on Dave Thomas's wheels over at TSW as well.

http://www.thomas-superwheel.com/prods.html scroll to the bottom, they
apparently still offer 4 models.

by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:28:57

Hmmmn, neither of those sites seem to be responding positively (I used
Google). If you have trouble finding images of either or both Momos, lemme
know.

> Momo is an acronym (?) for Moretti Motors, a racing outfit in Italy run by
> Gianpiero (?) Moretti, a former racer. Among other enterprises, Momo
makes
> steering wheels for real race cars, like Formula One Ferraris. Logitech
(a
> Swiss peripherals maker) licensed the name for a pair of FF
(force-feedback)
> wheels, referenced above by Achim Trensz: the first one, the Momo Force
(an
> excellent wheel) was replaced with the Momo Racing (mmm, not so good, as
Jon
> Stewart would say). The Momo series was preceded by the LWMFF wheels
> (Logitech Wingman Formula Force; the "Wingman" reference is to their line
of
> flight-sim joysticks), which likewise came in two variants, the better one
> was again the first one (dubbed 'Ol Red' by us netizens 'cuz of its
> red-*** rim) and the later, lesser version, which had a yellow rim. As
I
> mentioned earlier, the Ol' Red wheels are the most beloved of all the
> commercial FF products, especially when equipped with the ball-bearing
> modification created by Jens Schumi (the stock bearing had a grungy sleeve
> bearing which made it feel more like a pepper grinder than a racing car).

> Here's a clip of the Momo Force from an Italian site:

> www.amr.es/.../premiados/ rec_momoforce-pcw.htm

> Here's a piccy of the Momo Racing from a Finnish site:

> www.skenegroup.net/ fi/artikkelit/MOMO_racing

> > This is wonderful stuff...thanks much.

> > By the way, I keep seeing the word Momo being used. What the heck is a
> > Momo?

> > Thanks again!

> > > Just realize the MOMO Force(good) and MOMO Racing(average) are two
> different
> > > wheels.

> > --
> > Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Plowboy** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 06:04:40

LOL steve,

I certainly didnt think the "military" version was jett black with 10k
more bucks in wheels & accessories, carrying the 5'10" blonde bombshell
neighbor, to the grocerie store... So how it would last in battle.... any
longer than my Blazer? but maybe there is a study on this that you are
basing this on? <j/k>

LOL Diesels... love em or hate em, they are loud sob's and everytime I hear
one go by near my house, I instantly think "oh Sh*t!! The trash!!!" This
is reflex because a few times, I just woke up hearing the trash truck
ambling down the street, me knowing full well ours was not at the curb!

> ***ugly, yes. (There's no reason this kind of vehicle can't look
> great - does anybody remember the Lamborghini Panther?). A Diesel
> version would burn a lot less fuel, since these dealies (at least in
> the military) spend most of their time idling...when Diesels merely
> sip fuel.

> I'm no defender of the Hummer...if you mean the military version. (I
> drove the pickup-based H2 the other day; it's quite nice.) I have
> been such a strong critic of our military hardware - like the M16
> (unreliable and unlethal), the Abrams (maintenance and logistics
> probs), the Osprey (doesn't work), the Humvee (too big for CQB in
> rubble-filled urban areas), the F-22 (we shoulda picked the F-23,
> which was optimized for asymmetrical warfare), the Crusader (we
> shoulda gone w. Gerry Bull's arty pieces), the Stryker (the S.
> Africans make much better wheeled APCs ), and the Bradley (like the
> pocket battleship, it falls between the 2 stools of 'outrun what it
> can't outgun...and v.v.') - that I was for years Car and Driver
> magazine's Military Affairs Editor (I still have a drawerful of biz
> cards).

>>> BTW, the RW Hummer does one thing extremely well: survives on the
>>> battlefield (read "Black Hawk Down").

>> There's two other things is does extremely well: Looking butt-ugly
>> and burning ridiculous amounts of fuel as soon as you even think of
>> turning the ignition key 8-P

>> Cheers, uwe

>> --
>> mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
>> Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>> Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
>> GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by **Plowboy** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 06:14:45

Half my post was not typed... hence the brevity... <j/k>

Still high priced (yes I say ecci is over priced, still damn good units I
keep hearing.) But the facts are... Hell look at JR (Dale Earnhardt that
is) he didnt go Ecci, last I knew he had the "modest" Thomas-Super-Wheel...
So unless they "gave him one" as loss leader, (even still what does he use,
in pics I keeps seeing TSW's) so that means volumes to me, that is with me
thinking the guy could afford anything, just likes his Thomas wheel... If
Ecci took off 35% price cut, they would sell them enough to have to hire 20
guys around the clock to build em, I would bet.

that is the last of my .02.

sting32 (plowboy)

> The ECCI gear is the priciest AND the best. Period. (If you can live
> without FF.)

Snipped politeley but still I top posted... LOL

by **Joachim Trens** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 07:02:19

> This is wonderful stuff...thanks much.

> By the way, I keep seeing the word Momo being used. What the heck is a
> Momo?

> Thanks again!

If you're talking about *** accessories, are you aware of all the
artwork that's being produced for free for these games by enthusiats?

In the case of racing games, it's mainly cars and tracks. Especially for
Nascar Racing 2003. I'm not sure how much you are into this, but if you
are interested, the cars at this site should wet your appetite :)

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Select one of the car pages and have a look at the beauties :)

There are also add-on tracks being made. There's no site with images of
all tracks, but at least the list at this site

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

(click on the link 'Tracks for Nascar 2003' on the left)

will give you an idea of how creative these people are.

Achim

by **Ruud Dingeman** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:01:37

>>To me he seems to be doing real research and interviews in this
>>newsgroup, which seems to be the intelligent way of preparing an article

>>Why do you call that stealing?
> Because day one of journalism school you are taught that newsgroup
> research/online interviews/e-mail interviews are only to be used in
> worst-case scenarios...

Dude, I happen to have a BA in journalism. And although in my day only
*Fidonet* was mostly available to the general public (Usenet was for
bigtime academics networks!), we were mainly taught to be critical and
wary no matter which medium, and that certainly applies to Usenet just
fine.
It has nothing to do with stealing, however, since people have given
their information and opinion freely on a *public* forum like this. You
just have to ask if you want to use the info on a personal basis, which
is just what mr. Bray did.

(Actually, on day one of 'school', in the late Eighties, I remember we
were asked who wanted to get into this business because of watching Lou
Grant. ;)

Regards, Rudy
--------------------
GPLRank: -22

by **Generi** » Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:28:30

I've got an Ol' Red and am curious about the cost/availability of the
bearing mod. Pepper grinder is a perfect description of its feel. Do you
have a link for this?

-John

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