rec.autos.simulators

Okay folks, here's the question:

If somebody produced a dedicated motorcycle sim controller, would you buy
it?  Also, what should it look like, how should it function, and what would
you be willing to pay for one?

I'm not really into motorcycle sims, but I have been a motorcycle
owner/rider in the past, and I have a few ideas that could be do-able:

I'm envisioning a sit-down type of controller, similar to an arcade
motorcycle racer with the simulated bike that you tilt to steer; I don't
think something like a TSW or an ECCI setup with handlebars would do the
trick.  At a minimum, you'd need a simulated motorcycle seat that tilted, to
provide for steering.  Attached to this you'd have handlebars with a
twist-type throttle grip (on the right), and a brake lever (on the left).
You could incorporate a left-foot toe-shifter and an ancillary (rear) brake
pedal for the right foot.  These could be upscale add-ons, of course -- for
the sake of simplicity, the shifting functions could be performed via
switches on/near the throttle grip.  It might even be able to add-on a
feature that would would sense when you're pulling upwards on the
handlebars, to simulate pull-ups for jumps in motocross sims, or the
up-and-back action it takes to get the front tire off the ground.

Anyway, as far as the basic concept goes, what sounds right, and what sounds
off-base?  What would you add, and what is overkill?  Also, given the basic
concept (tilt/steer seat/handlebar assembly with hand throttle grip and
brake lever, plus some type of shifter), what would be a realistic price
range?

We know the folks from Thomas Enterprises, ECCI, and SRC browse this
newsgroup from time to time -- maybe if we can convince them that this type
of thing is do-able, they will respond with an actual product or prototype.

Let's hear YOUR thoughts.

-- John Bodin
    Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
    http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Sounds cool. I think it would actually only need to emulate current
stick movement. Left right-fore/aft.
The fore/aft is going to be important for later. Games like Motocross
Madness are already using it, and the ability to shift your weight
forward and back adds an immense dose of reality and control.

The shifter can go anywhere. I don't care if it mimic's a motorcycle
shifter or not. I *would* like the brake on the right side with the
throttle instead of on the left, where the clutch should be.
I've been riding for too many years to risk "unlearning" playing a
damn video game. I can just see myself grabbing the clutch thinking
it's the brake, and winding up in the bushes. :-)

If asthetics aren't important, a BMX bicycle frame could make a good
starting point. Get a wider longer seat, and the dimensions would be
pretty close. The bicycle frame would also be light and strong.
I'm no electrical engineer, but the bike frame and a flight sim
stick/throttle would probably be a good basis for a winter project.
:-)

--

        http://www.users.fast.net/~fusion1
    (dirt bikes, rat bikes, rental car abuse...)

Sounds like the answer to my burning question "what do i do with my old bike
since i just bought a new one?"  I have a 16" Mtn Bike frame that ive abused in
every way imaginable so i know it could take the punishment.  I also have an
old 2-axis 4-button joystick i never use now that i have my wheel/pedal combo.

The soloution to the clutch/brake lever is simple...you calibrate it whichever
way you choose.  Now since I (like probably many others here) ride a real
motorcycle i would choose to put the brake on the right with the throttle and
the clutch on the left.  

Chris

If they came out with a motorcycle controller, I would buy motorcycle sims.
If you want to go for simplicity and keep the cost down, something that
rests on your legs and you lean over onto would be pretty cool.  It could
have an adjustable height between your legs and your chest to go so you can
be comfortable.  You would have to go with buttons for shifting.  The top of
the controller would swivel around the bottom so that it would roll (just
like a motorcycle) into the turns and you would have to get this calibrated
just right to make it feel realistic.  Some sort of big button could also be
placed where your chest goes so that when you lift off the button, it tells
the game to situp.  These are just some ideas.  I think it would be cool if
someone made a motorcycle controller.

JB

sounds very expensive...
also, if this thing would be full size (which it sounds like it would be),
how would you be able to get close enough to a 21" monitor to be able to see
what is going on in the game...

Sorry John I feel this would be one expensive task & price tag with
everything you suggested! {imho}. Sounds great but it isnt practical.
I raced professionally in the 70s & to make a controller as stated is
almost impossible & I don't think any contoller company would try
this.. Cheers Thom_j.

<snipped for saving newsgroup space>

I've been riding motorcycles for over 30yrs.  A few years back there was a
commercial arcade game called Hang On which I loved. There were two versions of
it, one you stood up in front of with handlebars as input, and another with a
little bike you sat on and leaned side to side to turn.  The one you sat on
didn't translate for me.  On a real bike you have centrifical force holding
you/pushing you onto the bike, you don't have to pull it back and forth between
your legs.  The one with only handlebars worked much better for me.
Even then it wasn't realistic in that you didn't counter steer, it felt better
than the bike mockup.  In reality you do it all by just pushing/counter
steering the bars.
I find a joystick for steering combined with pedals for gas and brake the best
setup to date. The leaning of the joystick seems to FEEL better than the
turning of a steering wheel.
I think a variation of Microsofts joystick with the pivoting handle has
potential. Substitute handlebars that could be turned left/right for steering,
counter steering could be simply implimented by reversing the input.
Would I pay for it ?  Right now no. There isn't any software todate that would
justify having another controller hooked up (I've got four at the moment).

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

With tilt to steer, you MUST have strong force feedback.

How else can you properly simulate getting high sided.

Use your big screen TV.  TV-out is an option on a lot of video cards now.   I
even have a standalone converter.

Jason.

--------
Jason Monds
"My other car is a Ferrari"
http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl - For my combined gas/brake setups
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

good point

not too strong though..or else it'll toss the rider...hehe

excellent idea.

can anyone think of a way to use a MS Sidewinder stick together with
Thrustmaster T2 pedals?  that way I can have forwards/backwards lean,
steering and left/right lean on the stick, rear brake on the
Sidewinder throttle and throttle/front brake on the pedals.   perhaps
I could even use the sidewinder throttle as rear brake _and_ clutch?

come to think of it; GP500 doesn't support clutching, does it?

--
Gunnar -- '98 Super Primerbird '92 G00F2
   #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2  
            de vakreste ord p? jord:  saldo i Deres fav?r

Yes, I would!! I've even considered making one myself. Really wouldn't be that
difficult really.
Bob

Checkout http://www.gunpowder.freeserve.co.uk/wheels/