rec.autos.simulators

Maybe Douglas Adams just got the name of the race wrong when he
decided to call them "Vogons"? How good is American poetry, anyway? ;-)

I've said before I wouldn't comment on this issue anymore, but it's
just too tempting to end up the alt.humor.best-of-usenet hall of fame
some day. Maybe we should all just get back to racing?

Cheers,

uwe

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  lol, give me a break Uwe.  You know you were talking about Bush.  Anyone
reading your reply would think the same.  But you get an A for effort of
twisting things around, without answering questions.

  Oh, thats right; you were replying to a post about Bush, but you were
referring to someone else, that you didn't name.  <wink>

  Ok, who exaclty were you referring to if not Bush ? (or will this be the
second question I've asked you, that you don't answer)

  And I never said Kerry's father wasn't a factor in his education.  He
wasn't a factor in your reply.  Hint; daddy, etc. in a reply to a post about
Bush.

  But then, you already know all this.

Tell me who "they" is and how you know they're gonna be killing thousands of
your countrymen if you don't do this?  Also tell me how this action will
stop thousands of your countrymen being killed.  This course has sure cost
hundreds so far.  The situation has gone too far and there's *** all ANYONE
can do about it now - I guess it'll just play out and we'll see who had the
closest guess at the fallout in about 20 or 30 years.  Damned if you do,
damned if you don't.  I have no answers, as I have stated.

I have no political agenda.  I don't even know what I would do with one.
Fact is, I just don't like people being killed.  I was horrified by 9/11 and
I'm horrified by current events.  Two wrongs don't make a right and all
that.  Who cares what "side" people are on???  Fact is there's a load of
pain and suffering out there, regardless of the "side" we are on.  If me
stating that I'm not happy about that makes more people start to feel more
cozy about it then I guess that could be considered a good thing in a
twisted kind of way.

From my simpleton viewpoint, I see what could be boiled down to "shoot
first, ask questions later"

And I see very little positive coming out the other side.

Like I already said, I *really* hope I'm wrong.  I almost envy you, being so
comfortable with what's going on, feeling confident that the motivation was
true and just, that the outcome will surely be deemed worth the cost.  I
just don't see it - sorry.

LOL!

You spotted the inspiration, then :D

Not too subtle, I guess!!

  The point is...BEFORE George W Bush, Before President Clinton and
Before any thought of 9/11 crept into the minds of AQ, they already hated
us.  You don't blow up ships, you don't pull down buildings, you don't
blow up children and you don't saw off heads unless you ALREADY have a
beef.  I am stunned that you think they can feel WORSE ABOUT US NOW THAN
THEY ALREADY DO!  If you***off every Muslim in the freakin world, then
we are at no more risk than we are already.  
They are coming.  My grandkids, your children, your friends, your very
lives are all the provocation they need.  By living and breathing we have
made ourselves a target.  Which goverment, who was in power, what
multinational corporation is dealing behind your back makes no difference
now.  
They are coming, whether we bow down and suck thier apendages, they are
coming.  Whether we pray on eastern facing mats, they are coming.  What
we do now to endear or enrage is not the issue.  They have already begun.  
Shaking hands and playing nice will not stop them.  Fighting overseas
will not stop them...but it may delay them.  
   Having a Moron or Choirboy for President will not mollify them.  
Sucking up to Euro leaders will not pacify them. Ignoring them will not
stop them.
Two books might clear things up...The Koran and The Shadow War.  I have
read neither but I am told they both include numerous passages about
ending  our lives.  
   Hell, I'm not even a Jew, or Christian, or a Muslim or Hindu.  Yet I
offend them.  There are something like 29 or 30 armed conflicts currently
smoldering around the world(excluding crime and drug interdictions) and
of those, something like 28 involve people of Muslim faith.  So wring
your hands and WORRY about how they FEEL about us.  

Say hello to Neville when you meet him.

dave henrie

Erm Dave, you may like to stop and think about WHY they started to feel
something about you (instead of just not caring and / or not knowing
about the country in the first place... like you guys and Denmark, for
instance).

You might like to stop and think about WHY most citizens of this world
don't exactly dig American politics now (in most Internet polls about 75
per cent of people outside the US would've voted him out of office - but
the religious right, or rather the $ sponsoring that particular group in
the background, kept him in).

I think most of us Europeans (which would mean 'liberal pussies' to most
Bush voters, but OK - we don't all have a craving for guns & bibles)
could understand the US wanting to strike back after having 9/11, but
most of us don't grok picking Saddam - b*stard extraordinaire though he
may be - and invading Iraq (hey, oil! Lots of it!) instead of going
after Osama properly. He's still out there, I hear?

Personally, I think the US would have a lot to gain if they finally
bullied and/or enforced a proper peace plan for Israel, giving the
Palestians a permanent place of their own on the West Bank and putting a
nicely-sized UN peace force in between (until things cool off in 60-odd
years or so), instead of a dumb wall... At least a proper peace
agreement would give the moderate Muslim majority something positive to
think about (the US that is).
But I guess that's not likely to happen, Bush supporting a hardliner
like Sharon 'nd all. Still, I think in the mid to long term it'd be more
efficient than starting an unprovoked war in Iraq (note I said 'in Iraq'
- Saddam had been keeping relatively quiet under the no-fly zones at the
time). Or wherever the next 'target' may be.

But hey, 'get Osama' seems to have been miraculously swapped for other
intentions, like putting fear of Muslims instead of fear of Russkies,
ditching those pesky international human rights laws especially during
military trials, and policies like 'get WMD uhh... Target Not Found...
Get Oil' - and THAT may be why many people feel not particularly
positive about Bush's US right now.

It's not about defending yourself, it's about how you strike back and at
which particular target. Currently I think he's giving many Muslims the
feeling he's out to get them instead of focusing on the much smaller
group of religious fanatic terrorists. I don't think many people would
mind if Bush had kept on concentrating to chase Osama - the one he
originally said he was out to get. Or that fella Zarqawi, a prime
secondary target if there ever was one.

Regards, Rudy
--------------------
GPLRank: -24

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:58:36 -0000, "Mark Davison"

Actually, confident is not the word I would use. I've had my doubts
about what's going on, just as most Americans have at one time or
another. But I really feel I've been able to put politics aside and
weigh what's going on with an un-biased view (as much as an American
can be un-biased after 9/11). In the end, the world is better off
without Saddam in power. The mass media doesn't report the good things
going on in Iraq, because it doesn't sell papers. They don't tell you
of the citizens of Iraq who thank our soldiers for freeing them from
this tyrant. However, having a nephew who server there, I know of
these stories.

Where'd you pull that number from.  No wonder you're so concerned if
your government has you believing that kind of stuff.  Apart from 9/11,
how many US nationals have actually been killed in Al Qaeda attacks
exactly?
--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

  Uwe, I'm suprised.   Of course America has good poets.  One of my
favorites is Dusty Hill or Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top...(I never know who
wrote what...)  However, this couplet proves beyond all doubt that America
is rich with poets....

  Oh, I want her.
Shit, I've got to have her.  

  aaahhhh doesn't that just satisfy the soul?  
dave henrie

     We might go back to the English practice of village annialation.  Or
the Turkish method of back door conversion.  Or the Chritian armies of
the dark ages.  This isn't a USA bred problem.  They just have bigger
swords now.  Certainly our medling in the past 40 years has pointed more
anger at our country.  But Muslim vs the world supercedes our involvement
by several centuries.

   At best this religious right you mention has about 25% of voters.  
Just try and win office riding on 1/4th of the voters.  If you want me to
vote for other countries, I can assure you there are precious few world
leaders that give me hope.

  Is this the UN that defends the Sudan?  The one that raked in BILLIONS
of Iraqi oil money?  South Korea was the last great stand of the UN.  
Since then they have become nothing more than a mafia.  If I am standing
on one side and the UN led forces are between me and killers.  You can
bet I will stand very very very far away.

 instead of a dumb wall... At least a proper peace

    28+ *** conflicts around the world that involve Muslim extremist.  
I'd be willing to bet Euros that very very few of them have ANYTHING to
do with Israel.  I do know that since that DUMB wall was erected,
Israelies stopped exploding at a previous rate that would have dwarfed
9/11 when considered by a population proportion.
     President Bush stated quite clearly after 9/11 that he intended to
chase terror around the globe.  Efforts in the Philipines, the Guineas,
in Europe, in Africa,  in financial dealings.  He never said OBL was the
only focus.  Nor did he claim revenge as a motive.  He said he would
stand up to terror as best he could.  Damn.  A bible thumping cro-magnion
who stands behind his words.  Chirac baby...you listening?
Jimmy Carter was and is deeply, DEEPLY religious, JFK was Catholic, Bill
Clinton had a special oversized Bible he pulled out when-ever a new stain
showed up.  But no-one feared them because of thier beliefs.  No one
questioned their sanity because they believed in Jesus.  How odd.
dave henrie

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:31:48 -0000, Peter

We lost nearly 3000 on 9/11/01. I think that backs up my statement.

No, we didn't. A lot of them weren't Americans. Don't know why American like
to continually claim all the dead as Americans. Maybe because they don't
want to recognize that we are the only country that went nuts in response to
what happened?

We need to get over it already. I know it's not PC to say, but as tragedies
go, it's barely a blip on the radar in history. That's just a FACT. Hardly a
license to go ahead and slaughter 100,000 innocent Iraqi men, women, and
children.

Maybe we Americans are just extremely weak compared to everyone else.

--
David G Fisher

Dave, you're right. Heart-wrenching, emotional stuff. How I could
possible have missed ZZ Top is beyond me. "She got legs / she knows
how to use'em" is another classic. ;^)

cheers, uwe

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Kerry's father was a huge factor in his education.  That's who taught
Kerry that it's better to marry a *** rich woman than to try to build
your own fortune.

Don McCorkle

Not really, all you need are religions  that don't turn spreading
themselves to the "heathens" and "infidels" into a holy duty of the
believer. That's why the major world religions are so
"successful". (much like a virus is to be considered successful, until
it finally kills its host organism).

Forcing our cultural vision onto others is a major asset of our global
taker culture, be you muslim or be you christian or whatever, at the
root there's the common belief that we know the way man is supposed to
live.

Cheers,

uwe

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