rec.autos.simulators

GP3 - canned spins?

Ruud van Ga

GP3 - canned spins?

by Ruud van Ga » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00




>:>  Does this mean that GPL has canned "buzz up into the air, rotate 12
>:>times, hover, hang there for 10 seconds and fall".  Well the inertia's
>:>wrong.  Definitely means it was canned I guess :-)

>: Actually evidence of exactly the opposite - warps cause cars to meet
>: with forces far exceeding those which would normally result from
>: contact, however the engine responds entirely appropriately, as can be
>: seen from the results. The "hang there" is the car bouncing off the
>: limits of the GPL world.

>  I was talking about offline play.  Nothing to do with warps.  Must be
>"canned" jumps into the air obviously.

Oh yeah, try making a pool game and you'll see what I mean.

Ruud van Gaal
MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Art: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Thomas M?rlun

GP3 - canned spins?

by Thomas M?rlun » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

No, it just means that you sould send your request to replace Shoemaker for
the 2001 season :-)



David G Fishe

GP3 - canned spins?

by David G Fishe » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Where did you read this?

David G Fisher

David G Fishe

GP3 - canned spins?

by David G Fishe » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Your absolutely right.

There wasn't canned spins in GP2, but I'm sure people will say GP3 has it as
well.

David G Fisher





Stephen Ferguso

GP3 - canned spins?

by Stephen Ferguso » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00





> > And from what i've read GPL isn't quite the 99.5% realistic that
everyone
> > thought.  Jackie Stewart reckons the cars in '67 had way more grip (his
> > opinion not mine).

> Where did you read this?

> David G Fisher

He catches the faint scent of his own personal Holy Grail.... the one
damning piece of evidence, which will put the nails in the coffin of the
Papyrus physics engine once and for all.  He's already salivating.

Wait until he finds the quote from Colin McRae, where he says "The Focus
WRC?  Yeah, it's much better than the old Subaru.  The Subaru was utterly
dependent on tire choice, spring rate, dampers... it was a mess.  But Ford
has developed this fantastic new lookup table system for controlling the
overall dynamics of the vehicle.  It's brilliant really.  I don't need to
worry what kind of surface I'm on... those magic numbers get me through in
record time".

Stephen

MichaelJ

GP3 - canned spins?

by MichaelJ » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00



I'd like to know the source for this - I've often wondered if the
wheelspin available in GPL right up to 4th gear and 100mph+ in some
conditions on a dry track is realistic.

- Michael

MichaelJ

GP3 - canned spins?

by MichaelJ » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00



I really hope Geoff has fixed this. It's the main thing I didn't like
about the physics model in GP2.

I think it would have required a fairly major rewrite to fix something so
fundamental.

- Michael

Simon Brow

GP3 - canned spins?

by Simon Brow » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Ok, here we go, it was a post on a forum a few months ago, but remember i
don't know if the story is true and it's not my opinion anyway.
The link to the post is
http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=40815&messageid=95222...
but if that doesn't work the other way to get there is-
Go to www.alphaf1.com/gp3 and click on the "discussion forums" on the left
hand frame.  Now on the new window click the "grand prix legends" forum.
Once the page has loaded click the number 6 down at the bottom of the page,
and then read the post entitled "News Flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".
Mats Lofkvis

GP3 - canned spins?

by Mats Lofkvis » Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:00:00




> > And from what i've read GPL isn't quite the 99.5% realistic that everyone
> > thought.  Jackie Stewart reckons the cars in '67 had way more grip (his
> > opinion not mine).

> I'd like to know the source for this - I've often wondered if the
> wheelspin available in GPL right up to 4th gear and 100mph+ in some
> conditions on a dry track is realistic.

The tires only have a finite amount of traction, so in situations
where almost all of it is used for turning, very little extra
power is needed to break them loose. If you run with a close to open
diff (as with the default setups in GPL), it gets even worse since it
is very easy to spin the lightly loaded inside rear wheel (*).

My guess is that the level of grip in GPL is more or less spot on,
what's making the cars hard to drive for a real life driver is the
lack of input the driver is used to. Besides the limited field
of view, limited resolution and limited frame rate of the computer
screen, almost all of the so important seat-of-the-pants input is
missing.

The addition of force feedback has made GPL hell of a lot better
in this respect, with a properly calibrated FF wheel it is actually
not to hard even for a beginner to drive the cars slowly around the
track as long as the driver is not ignoring the natural reaction to
stop turning the wheel further when it is starting to load up.

      _
Mats Lofkvist

(*) This is exactly the same as with an open diff rear wheel drive
    road car; when turning really hard you can spin the inside rear
    wheel at speeds way above where you can loose traction while
    accelerating in a straight line.

John Wallac

GP3 - canned spins?

by John Wallac » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Still a difference in the collision detection rather than the physics
- if two cars get too far "into" each other you can imagine the forces
involved to make that happen must be considered immense, hence the
*** of the separation.

Of course that could be "dumbed down" to make it more realistic, but
then the fizzix wouldn't be right and we can't have that.

John

Stephen Ferguso

GP3 - canned spins?

by Stephen Ferguso » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Are the collision detection and resulting reaction forces *really* based on
penetration of one body into the other?  Collision detection, yes...
reaction forces?  I doubt it.

Stephen



> >  I was talking about offline play.  Nothing to do with warps.  Must be
> >"canned" jumps into the air obviously.

> Still a difference in the collision detection rather than the physics
> - if two cars get too far "into" each other you can imagine the forces
> involved to make that happen must be considered immense, hence the
> *** of the separation.

> Of course that could be "dumbed down" to make it more realistic, but
> then the fizzix wouldn't be right and we can't have that.

> John

Greg Cisk

GP3 - canned spins?

by Greg Cisk » Fri, 07 Jul 2000 04:00:00




> >With all due respect, if you think GP2 had "canned spins", then you
weren't
> >truely feeling the simulation.
> >It was a very difficult sim, but the spins were true.

> This has been done to death, but the spins were definitely canned to
> some degree. The inertia is all wrong.

Really. Please explain how you claim to *FEEL* inertia sitting
at your desk playing a non force feedback game.

--


Gregor Vebl

GP3 - canned spins?

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 08 Jul 2000 04:00:00


> > This has been done to death, but the spins were definitely canned to
> > some degree. The inertia is all wrong.

> Really. Please explain how you claim to *FEEL* inertia sitting
> at your desk playing a non force feedback game.

> --



That's not as difficult. The higher inertia makes a car turn in much
slower, and the spin buildup is longer making it easier to drive. Change
the values in the F1 2000 vehicle files to see the difference.

But that's not even the point. It seems that GP2 actually got inertia
right, the other sims seem to have it set much higher to make them
easier to catch spins and such.

-Gregor


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