rec.autos.simulators

by **Jan Verschuere** » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00

An F1 car re-sticking will have you calling your osteopath... in Gp2 it
gingerly slides to a halt (even on asphalt), irrespective of what you do to
the controls. Maybe this is because you can neither use a clutch nor stall
the engine, but it's *not* right.

Jeeezzz even thinking about it brings back the frustration.

Jan.
=---

Gregor Veble wrote...

> > Personally, I've always had the feeling once you stepped over a certain
> > limit (which, maybe because of the insufficient simulation rate, is not
> > clearly defined) there was no real control until the car stopped.

> Sounds awfully lot like a real car if you ask me.

> -Gregor

by **John** » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>Oh shit, wasn't this done to death during GP2'2 reign? Depends a lot on
>your definition of "canned".

>Personally, I didn't have a problem with the spins in GP2, it was only
>one area of the overall driving model and the whole package was (and
>still is IMHO) an awesome piece of programming for its time.

>GP3 will not be *perfect*. The perfect sim does not, (GPL included!) and
>probably never will, exist. But GP3 *WILL* be pretty fantastic anyway,
>despite the number of minor flaws and omissions we already know about.

>In my opinion, (based on using GC's programs for many years) GP3 will
>raise the standards for modern F1 sims yet again, as did GP2.

>If GP3 is *half* as good now, as GP2 was then, I'll be passing dosh over
>the counter without hesitation.

>8-)

>*Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

Still it will be a bit disappointing even for diehard GP2 fans like
myself, if after all these years of development Geoff didn't fix the
biggest and most obvious flaw of GP2 (yes those canned spins did exist).

Personally I'm still looking forward to it, but it will be sad if
it still has this big flaw.

Hoping he didn't spend all these years working
on eye-candy.

--John
--

by **Jo Helse** » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>> Personally, I've always had the feeling once you stepped over a certain
>> limit (which, maybe because of the insufficient simulation rate, is not
>> clearly defined) there was no real control until the car stopped.

>Sounds awfully lot like a real car if you ask me.

YOUR CAR IS NOT REAL! YOUR CAR IS NOT REAL!!! IT'S NOT BAD, BUT IT'S NOT GPL!!
:-)

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

by **Slic** » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Maybe he did?

Oliver
BEOROCKET Racing: www.beorocket.co.yu

by **Eldre** » Tue, 04 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>What are you talking about. GP3 is just the official name for the 1998 track
>and drivers pack for Grand Prix 2.

>Allan Harrison

Cynic...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +70.45

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Allan Harriso** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

What are you talking about. GP3 is just the official name for the 1998 track
and drivers pack for Grand Prix 2.

Allan Harrison

> > Those of you that have played this sucker: does it still have the
> > canned spins
> > of GP2

> Oh shit, wasn't this done to death during GP2'2 reign? Depends a lot on
> your definition of "canned".

> Personally, I didn't have a problem with the spins in GP2, it was only
> one area of the overall driving model and the whole package was (and
> still is IMHO) an awesome piece of programming for its time.

> GP3 will not be *perfect*. The perfect sim does not, (GPL included!) and
> probably never will, exist. But GP3 *WILL* be pretty fantastic anyway,
> despite the number of minor flaws and omissions we already know about.

> In my opinion, (based on using GC's programs for many years) GP3 will
> raise the standards for modern F1 sims yet again, as did GP2.

> If GP3 is *half* as good now, as GP2 was then, I'll be passing dosh over
> the counter without hesitation.

> 8-)

> *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

by **Ian** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

You forgot the weather, FF, network play, 3D card support etc.......

--
Ian Parker
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."

> What are you talking about. GP3 is just the official name for the 1998
track
> and drivers pack for Grand Prix 2.

> Allan Harrison

> > > Those of you that have played this sucker: does it still have the
> > > canned spins
> > > of GP2

> > Oh shit, wasn't this done to death during GP2'2 reign? Depends a lot on
> > your definition of "canned".

> > Personally, I didn't have a problem with the spins in GP2, it was only
> > one area of the overall driving model and the whole package was (and
> > still is IMHO) an awesome piece of programming for its time.

> > GP3 will not be *perfect*. The perfect sim does not, (GPL included!) and
> > probably never will, exist. But GP3 *WILL* be pretty fantastic anyway,
> > despite the number of minor flaws and omissions we already know about.

> > In my opinion, (based on using GC's programs for many years) GP3 will
> > raise the standards for modern F1 sims yet again, as did GP2.

> > If GP3 is *half* as good now, as GP2 was then, I'll be passing dosh over
> > the counter without hesitation.

> > 8-)

> > *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

by **Simon Brow** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I presume by "canned" spins you mean that if you sit still and try to do
doughnuts the car won't go past about 200 degrees, which is obviously not
realistic. Funnily enough the same thing applies in GPL. The car
definitely stops at about 200 degrees.
Also GC must have been improving something the last four years, so lets not
write the game off before it's release.
And from what i've read GPL isn't quite the 99.5% realistic that everyone
thought. Jackie Stewart reckons the cars in '67 had way more grip (his
opinion not mine). And locking the brakes gives you shorter braking
distances than not locking (i've tried this myself).
(I'm not knocking GPL btw, I know it's the best and most likely still will
be after July 28)

by **Remco Moe** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>I presume by "canned" spins you mean that if you sit still and try to do
>doughnuts the car won't go past about 200 degrees, which is obviously not
>realistic.

There is also another "problem". When you are in a spin, and brake
until you stop spinning, and then release the brake, the spin will
start again. BTW, "canned" spins aren't bad, as long they're
convincing. And in GP2 they are.

Not when you do it right <G>

Agreed.

I wonder if he tried GPL.....

I disagree.

For me GPL will be still #1, due to the online play and the cars. But
for a lot of people GP3 will be the new King.

Remco

by **Andre Warrin** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

And what setup he used if he did try it...

Andre

by **John Wallac** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Actually evidence of exactly the opposite - warps cause cars to meet
with forces far exceeding those which would normally result from
contact, however the engine responds entirely appropriately, as can be
seen from the results. The "hang there" is the car bouncing off the
limits of the GPL world.

Probably concerning at the time for the driver, but more a limit of
the 'net and latency than a limitation.

John

by **John Wallac** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 02:48:03 GMT, "Simon Brown"

>I presume by "canned" spins you mean that if you sit still and try to do
>doughnuts the car won't go past about 200 degrees, which is obviously not
>realistic. Funnily enough the same thing applies in GPL. The car
>definitely stops at about 200 degrees.

That's not what I meant - the car "stopping" at 180 degrees or so is
natural, as the weight of the engine has just been swung out and it's
difficult for it's direction to be reversed, hence the suddent stop.
One difference is that in GPL you can get the car to keep going around
and in GP2 you can't, but I can live with that.

The canned part in GP2 is when trying to catch a spin. It's rightly
difficult with the less forgiving fall off from the tyres, but when
you DO catch the spin using the brakes, let the car stop sliding, then
come off the brakes....it starts sliding again.

Far from it - I'm looking forward to it very much. Even if it was GP2
with 3D support and proper networking, that would be what everyone
eanted GP2 to be anyway.

It definitely doesn't, and I've tried that myself!

Cheers!
John

by **Richard G Cleg** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

:> Does this mean that GPL has canned "buzz up into the air, rotate 12
:>times, hover, hang there for 10 seconds and fall". Well the inertia's
:>wrong. Definitely means it was canned I guess :-)

: Actually evidence of exactly the opposite - warps cause cars to meet
: with forces far exceeding those which would normally result from
: contact, however the engine responds entirely appropriately, as can be
: seen from the results. The "hang there" is the car bouncing off the
: limits of the GPL world.

I was talking about offline play. Nothing to do with warps. Must be
"canned" jumps into the air obviously.

--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

by **Simon Brow** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Fair enough, i've no problem with any of that, with the exception of the
braking distance thing.
The test I did was using the default setup at Monza, using the front
straight, acclerating to certain speed and then braking with and without
locking my brakes. I made sure I tried lots of times and the car stopped
about 10% quicker if I just slammed the brakes all the way down and let the
tyres slide over the track.
Maybe it's just my braking technique or the brake bias on the default setup
but that's what I found.

by **Ruud van Ga** » Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:00:00

>:> Does this mean that GPL has canned "buzz up into the air, rotate 12
>:>times, hover, hang there for 10 seconds and fall". Well the inertia's
>:>wrong. Definitely means it was canned I guess :-)

>: Actually evidence of exactly the opposite - warps cause cars to meet
>: with forces far exceeding those which would normally result from
>: contact, however the engine responds entirely appropriately, as can be
>: seen from the results. The "hang there" is the car bouncing off the
>: limits of the GPL world.

> I was talking about offline play. Nothing to do with warps. Must be
>"canned" jumps into the air obviously.

No, just divisions by something near 0.
Thus resulting in unexpectedly large forces.
And that means buggy exaggerated (gosh am I spelling that correctly?)
effects, but not canned.
I bet Papyrus rather DIDN'T have such jumps.

Ruud van Gaal
MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl
Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

rec.autos.simulators

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?

GP3 - canned spins?