rec.autos.simulators

David G Fisher

Let's not overestimate what a beta tester does. Bugbear will do 99.9999% of
the work on the game. What they need from a tester is technical feedback on
how it performs on various configurations, and constructive criticism which
comes only from fact based knowledge. They can do without, "I think these
cars should handle like I say because I play GPL." Everybody thinks they
know how a car should handle in a sim. I've always taken the view that only
the people who actually raced the cars in real life (fact based knowledge)
truly know if they are represented correctly in a game. Everybody else is
just guessing.

David G Fisher

So what led you to believe that many people here seem to think different
then??

--
ed_

Yes I do....  infact I think many "GPL'ers" do too..

So I guess you're going to start bashing "die-hard" N4'ers now then?

--
ed_

Try again.

--
ed_

DGF words:

Mikkel

Sometimes I wonder if you forget those little pills your mother told you to
take every day.

Mikkel
http://www.simracing.dk

| Hi David,
|
| just be careful with the words you use. You're a GPL racer as well,
| right?
|
| Those who got GPL and realized it is something special, were also able
| to do the same for many a newer simulation that has come out since then.
| The problem is with the other, 'me too' GPL racers, who read the posts
| of the people mentioned before, and made a religion out of them. I don't
| want to go into sociology or whatever here, but I think you share
| similar views.
|
| Therefore, it's perfectly OK to give a GPL racer a testing opportunity,
| as long as that tester is also a GP3, RC2000 or whatever racer and can
| enjoy those racing games for what they are meant to deliver, not how
| they compare to GPL.
|
| -Gregor
|

| >
| > GPL racers-- though I have nothing against them-- are the most
prejudiced
| > when evaluating whether a racing title is a simulation or not.  So I
| > wouldn't pay much attention to what they say.
| >

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This makes the assumption that the GPL fans want every sim to behave like
GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over grip.

Now I believe that the GPL physics gives the best feel so far. I don't know
how accurate it is as I have never driven one of these cars. Possibly it
lends itselfs to a more sideways style than it should. I just know it is
fun. I think the era helps, in real life a 67 car vs a 2001 car may be more
fun - especially to the non expert driver.

Personally I love the patch to use the F2 engine (FD), because for me it
gives a better balance of power & grip. Yet I remain happy there is no
physics editor because the other factor that endears me to GPL is the superb
on-line capability.

My disappointment with Papyrus (though I understand the commercial reasons)
is the lack of development of the GPL engine outside of N4. At the time of
development we heard of punching in the parameters for other series for the
physics engine and you have sports saloons, downforce, rally cars, FWD, 4WD
etc. Of course this never materialised.

I have yet to find anything that conveys the "feel". This is personal. It is
a combination of my preference for the experience I want from a sim, my
controller setup and my ability. This has not been taught from GPL, I have
raced sims at a fairly average level, since Indy 500, GP1 etc. From day one
of the GPL demo I thought "wow, this feels right".

Whilst the development by the third party community has been outstanding
(the graphics of the cars equals an official new release of comparative
products IMHO) there is a strong desire for something new, with better
everything, because this is what I expect. The development of sims in the
last 10 years has been outstanding - so I expect a major development every
one to two years.

I am no less fickle or more loyal than any other simmer. I will drop GPL as
soon as I simply want the precious limited sim time to drive something else.
Believe me I have tried everything else and found many to be fun and good
products with many additional and well executed features. Yet the feel thing
has bought me back to GPL. If this makes me a hardened simmer, part of a
small minority then so be it, I can understand why the sales figures go
against my preferences.

I would not dismiss any product for not driving like GPL, I just want it to
feel right for me. It needs to match my perceptions not match GPL.

I have very high hopes for Rally Trophy and don't want it to handle just
like GPL!

Cheers

Tony

Jan.
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--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

I do remember very clearly quotes like the one's directly below. They
thought they should be able to slide the FWD rally cars a lot more in
RC2000. They wanted more pitch and roll. When many of them have commented on
modern F1 sims, they said they wanted more***pit movement. Because the
suspensions are 10x stiffer in a modern F1 car than a '67 F1 car, that is
not going to happen. They complain that the cars brake loose without enough
warning (which is realistic). I can only think that many of them do want
"every sim to behave like GPL - i.e. RWD & excess power over grip."

I have high hopes for Rally Trophy too. It looks fantastic.

David G Fisher

er no!

I just gave my view - I cannot speak for anyone else. I don't consider the
"GPL Community" to be one collective voice, but as diverse a set of opinions
and personal preferences and requirements from sims as any other.

I don't believe my view on any sim should be any more or less valuable
because I find GPL currentysatisfies my requirements the best.

My slant on RC2000 was that it seemed difficult to slide within the confines
of the track. Something I would expect to do on a loose surface and with an
FWD would expect to achieve through unsettling the car and brake bias etc..
Watching the replays of my own driving did not look like video footage of a
rally - even for FWDs . Any decent looking slides were normally off the
edges of the track.

This was probably my lack of ability with this particular sim, but I just
could not get into it as the immersive rally experience I had hoped, and I
have done some albeit very low level rallying on narrow lanes where I slid
around a lot more (but didn't hit that much!).

The tracks & graphics were fantastic, and the end of the stage with FF on it
felt like I had worked hard. It just didn't provide me with fantasy that I
was driving a rally car.

Like I said we each have our views. In my case whilst I want sims to be
ultra realistic, I also require the fantasy element which allows me to
compete at a level undoubtedly far beyond my abilities or experience. Maybe
in the case of RC2000 I needed another 50% track width over realism to cater
for my own abilities or limitations of a PC screen view?

My point is this is my personal view as a rally fan and general simmer, not
one that has only ever played GPL and compares directly to it.

I see no benefit in the which sim is best argument, and I am sure I am not
alone on this group for impatiently wanting better sims and wanting them
NOW!

Yes I want it now. Did I mention my rally driving? Sign me up as tester now!

Tony