rec.autos.simulators

The answer is no, but here's how to make your own setup faster:

General Comments:

Cross Weight (Wedge)

It's important to note, you'll notice in the recommendations below
that I only mention cross weight (wedge) as a solution in the exit
phase of the corner.  The biggest problem I see most people having is
being loose on exit.  The problem is most prevalent at flatter and
smaller tracks like Salem, USA Int'l, and Milwaukee.  The best thing
you can do if you are loose off the corner is to keep adding cross
weight until the car will drive smoothly off the corner.  Once you
find that cross weight balance leave it alone.  Use other setup
parameters to correct handling in other phases of the corner.  As you
reach a good neutral balance through the entire corner you may adjust
cross a bit, but only use it to correct corner exit problems.

Left rear spring rate also has a significant affect on corner exit
balance.  Cross weight adjustments are a bit more coarse than left
rear spring adjustments.  If you are just a little loose or tight on
exit just try adjusting the left rear spring a click or two in the
appropriate direction.

Driving Style

Another problem I see occurs when people over-drive the car into
corners.  A symptom of this problem is excessive right front tire
temperature.  If your right front tire is hotter than the right rear,
you probably need to adjust your driving style.  The two ways to
improve your driving style are to A) slow down more before approaching
your maximum turn rate, and B) use less steering wheel input.  If you
do 'A' then 'B' will naturally follow.  So, slow the car down more on
entry, get the right line through the apex, and you can get on the gas
earlier.  This is the key to going fast.  The result will be lower
right front tire temperatures, better tire wear, and faster lap times.

ARCA Sim Racing Setup Cheat Sheet:

These setup suggestions represent a conventional approach to chassis
and suspension setup.  A 'Coil Bind' or 'Big Bar - Soft Spring' setup
approach may differ significantly, and is beyond the scope of this
document.  While there are a few things here that may be specific to
ARCA Sim Racing, almost all of this applies directly to real life car
setups.  These recommendations are what works best for me in ASR based
on my own experience.

Air Pressures

Qualifying - at end of run:

- Middle temps should equal or slightly exceed inside edge (relative
to track) temp.
- RR middle temp should be 10F hotter than inside temp.
- The right rear tire temp should be about 10F to 15F hotter than
the right front.

Race - after 10 to 20 laps:

- For long runs middle temps should equal average tire temp (M = (I+M
+0)/3).
- The right rear tire temp should be about 10F to 15F hotter than
the right front.
- For short races apply qualifying guidelines after 10 to 20 laps.

Camber

- Set front camber for a 10 to 15 temp spread across tread with the
inside edge (relative to track) hotter.
- Set rear camber to full

For the completely clueless:

- Oversteer = Loose =  The rear tires lose grip first.
- Understeer = Pushing = The front tires lose grip first.

If the car is pushing, you need to increase oversteer.  If the car is
loose, you need to increase understeer.

Overall Handling Problem Solutions:

Increase Oversteer

- Soften Sway Bar
- Soften Front/Stiffen Rear Springs
- Raise Both Sides of Track Bar Equally
- Increase Rear Weight Bias
- Increase Front Fender Flare
- Lower Rear Wing
- Increase Rear Brake Bias

Increase Understeer

- Stiffen Sway Bar
- Stiffen Front/Soften Rear Springs
- Lower Both Sides of Track Bar Equally
- Increase Front Weight Bias
- Decrease Front Fender Flare
- Raise Rear Wing
- Increase Front Brake Bias

Corner Phase Handling Problem Solutions (Entry, Apex, Exit):

Entry

Increase Oversteer

- Soften Right Front Spring
- Stiffen Right Rear Spring
- Raise Left Side of Track Bar
- Soften Right Front Shock Compression/Bump

Increase Understeer

- Stiffen Right Front Spring
- Soften Right Rear Spring
- Lower Left Side of Track Bar
- Stiffen Right Front Shock Compression/Bump

Apex

Increase Oversteer

- Raise Both Sides of Track Bar Equally

Increase Oversteer

- Lower Both Sides of Track Bar Equally

Exit

Increase Oversteer

- Lower Cross Weight (Wedge)
- Soften Left Rear Spring
- Increase Right Rear Spring
- Raise Right Side of Track Bar

Increase Understeer

- Raise Cross Weight (Wedge)
- Stiffen Left Rear Spring
- Increase Right Rear Spring
- Lower Right Side of Track Bar

Pat Dotson
UltraForce Simulations LLC
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

I've heard variations on that phrase hundreds of times over the last
couple of weeks.

The answer is no, but here's how to make your own setup faster:

General Comments:

Cross Weight (Wedge)

It's important to note, you'll notice in the recommendations below
that I only mention cross weight (wedge) as a solution in the exit
phase of the corner.  The biggest problem I see most people having is
being loose on exit.  The problem is most prevalent at flatter and
smaller tracks like Salem, USA Int'l, and Milwaukee.  The best thing
you can do if you are loose off the corner is to keep adding cross
weight until the car will drive smoothly off the corner.  Once you
find that cross weight balance leave it alone.  Use other setup
parameters to correct handling in other phases of the corner.  As you
reach a good neutral balance through the entire corner you may adjust
cross a bit, but only use it to correct corner exit problems.

Left rear spring rate also has a significant affect on corner exit
balance.  Cross weight adjustments are a bit more coarse than left
rear spring adjustments.  If you are just a little loose or tight on
exit just try adjusting the left rear spring a click or two in the
appropriate direction.

Driving Style

Another problem I see occurs when people over-drive the car into
corners.  A symptom of this problem is excessive right front tire
temperature.  If your right front tire is hotter than the right rear,
you probably need to adjust your driving style.  The two ways to
improve your driving style are to A) slow down more before approaching
your maximum turn rate, and B) use less steering wheel input.  If you
do 'A' then 'B' will naturally follow.  So, slow the car down more on
entry, get the right line through the apex, and you can get on the gas
earlier.  This is the key to going fast.  The result will be lower
right front tire temperatures, better tire wear, and faster lap times.

ARCA Sim Racing Setup Cheat Sheet:

These setup suggestions represent a conventional approach to chassis
and suspension setup.  A 'Coil Bind' or 'Big Bar - Soft Spring' setup
approach may differ significantly, and is beyond the scope of this
document.  While there are a few things here that may be specific to
ARCA Sim Racing, almost all of this applies directly to real life car
setups.  These recommendations are what works best for me in ASR based
on my own experience.

Air Pressures

Qualifying - at end of run:

- Middle temps should equal or slightly exceed inside edge (relative
to track) temp.
- RR middle temp should be 10F hotter than inside temp.
- The right rear tire temp should be about 10F to 15F hotter than
the right front.

Race - after 10 to 20 laps:

- For long runs middle temps should equal average tire temp (M = (I+M
+0)/3).
- The right rear tire temp should be about 10F to 15F hotter than
the right front.
- For short races apply qualifying guidelines after 10 to 20 laps.

Camber

- Set front camber for a 10 to 15 temp spread across tread with the
inside edge (relative to track) hotter.
- Set rear camber to full

For the completely clueless:

- Oversteer = Loose =  The rear tires lose grip first.
- Understeer = Pushing = The front tires lose grip first.

If the car is pushing, you need to increase oversteer.  If the car is
loose, you need to increase understeer.

Overall Handling Problem Solutions:

Increase Oversteer

- Soften Sway Bar
- Soften Front/Stiffen Rear Springs
- Raise Both Sides of Track Bar Equally
- Increase Rear Weight Bias
- Increase Front Fender Flare
- Lower Rear Wing
- Increase Rear Brake Bias

Increase Understeer

- Stiffen Sway Bar
- Stiffen Front/Soften Rear Springs
- Lower Both Sides of Track Bar Equally
- Increase Front Weight Bias
- Decrease Front Fender Flare
- Raise Rear Wing
- Increase Front Brake Bias

Corner Phase Handling Problem Solutions (Entry, Apex, Exit):

Entry

Increase Oversteer

- Soften Right Front Spring
- Stiffen Right Rear Spring
- Raise Left Side of Track Bar
- Soften Right Front Shock Compression/Bump

Increase Understeer

- Stiffen Right Front Spring
- Soften Right Rear Spring
- Lower Left Side of Track Bar
- Stiffen Right Front Shock Compression/Bump

Apex

Increase Oversteer

- Raise Both Sides of Track Bar Equally

Increase Oversteer

- Lower Both Sides of Track Bar Equally

Exit

Increase Oversteer

- Lower Cross Weight (Wedge)
- Soften Left Rear Spring
- Increase Right Rear Spring
- Raise Right Side of Track Bar

Increase Understeer

- Raise Cross Weight (Wedge)
- Stiffen Left Rear Spring
- Increase Right Rear Spring
- Lower Right Side of Track Bar

Pat Dotson
UltraForce Simulations LLC
http://www.ultraforcesim.com

Nice post.  I've learned to go a little easier into a turn, and my
right-front tires are not getting as hot as they used to.  Tell me, is wise
to break going into a turn, generally speaking?  For instance, at Pocono-- I
have been breaking into the turn, then downshifting to 3rd, exiting the
turn, running straight, jumping to 4th, then to the next turn, etc.

I've got a best time at Pocono of 54.9xx. I know it's not terribly fast, but
breaking the 55.xxx barrier was cause for celebration.  :)

Alan

Well that helps me decide not to buy this game, since apparently
players don't want to share setups.

Must be a bit more competitive than fun than I prefer.

    What a bunch of spoilt little children - gimmee gimmee gimmee.

    A person spends years of sim racing and hours on this particular sim
working shit out and you think he SHOULD just give it out to any spoilt
little pissant?

    *** OFF IDIOTS! (and by the way, this is NOW rude). Go and severly
lower the average IQ of some other genre.

A group of programmers spend years of sim racing and  months on creating
a mod for rFactor, or some other game, and you think they should give it
away? Oh wait a minute, they do.

    2 things -

    1/ Not the same thing at all.

    2/ Are you saying they "SHOULD" do that and be criticized otherwise.

    Why dont you ask Pat to come around and do your driving for you as
well - make him bring his own computer and wheel/pedals over too!

    What a bunch of ***ing ***ers.

Not a reference to the player, but to the more competitive nature
of the game. I'm not sure what percentage of players are willing
to share setups and under what circumstances, and how this differs
from game to game.

Anyway, sorry, I overreacted. Shouldn't judge a game by one player's
post here.

Developing your own setups is one of the skills of simracing.
Sometimes I wonder why developers even include garage menus in their
sims when they could just have Greger Huttu or Volker Hackmann test
the sim and harcode their setups into it.  It would probably satisfy
3/4 of their target audience.

I wish someone would make a sim that made sharing setups impossible,
although frankly I suppose it couldn't be done.

People are very nice on the ASR servers.  Lot's of people do share
setups.  I've shared my own setups lots of times.  I don't mean for
'no' to be rude, but it's my policy now.

The problem is, there are people who continually ask to get another
setup.  It's getting ridiculous.  There are guys who I've given setups
to several times, and they aren't any faster with mine than with the
default, but they keep on asking everytime they see me on a server.
That was the point of taking *My Time* to write an explanation of how
to adjust setups in a way that works.  And also, to point out to these
people whose biggest problem is not setup, but driving ability/style,
that they need to spend more time turning laps and less time begging
for setups.

For example, the default Milwaukee setup will rather easily turn laps
at 30 seconds flat.  With minimal tweaking it will do 29.8's.  You end
up with guys who are going 30.5 asking for my setup that I just qual'd
at 29.4.  I've given my setups away before and they still run 30.5.
The problem is not setup, it's driving style.

And last but not least, I'll help anyone learn about car setup.  I
love to talk about vehicle dynamics and setup theory.  But I've
invested a lot of time learning this stuff, and just handing a setup
over is cheap.  I've done it, I still do it on occasion.  But don't
come at me with a sense of entitlement.  Ask me a question and I"ll
take as much time is necessary to answer it as best I can.  Ask me for
a setup and the answer is probably "no".

Open a book, do some web surfing, or read some of the posts ** I've
Taken The Time To Write **, and learn to do it yourself.

Pat Dotson

The answer is no, but here's how to make your own setup faster:

General Comments:

Cross Weight (Wedge)

It's important to note, you'll notice in the recommendations below
that I only mention cross weight (wedge) as a solution in the exit
phase of the corner.  The biggest problem I see most people having is
being loose on exit.  The problem is most prevalent at flatter and
smaller tracks like Salem, USA Int'l, and Milwaukee.  The best thing
you can do if you are loose off the corner is to keep adding cross
weight until the car will drive smoothly off the corner.  Once you
find that cross weight balance leave it alone.  Use other setup
parameters to correct handling in other phases of the corner.  As you
reach a good neutral balance through the entire corner you may adjust
cross a bit, but only use it to correct corner exit problems.

Left rear spring rate also has a significant affect on corner exit
balance.  Cross weight adjustments are a bit more coarse than left
rear spring adjustments.  If you are just a little loose or tight on
exit just try adjusting the left rear spring a click or two in the
appropriate direction.

Driving Style

Another problem I see occurs when people over-drive the car into
corners.  A symptom of this problem is excessive right front tire
temperature.  If your right front tire is hotter than the right rear,
you probably need to adjust your driving style.  The two ways to
improve your driving style are to A) slow down more before approaching
your maximum turn rate, and B) use less steering wheel input.  If you
do 'A' then 'B' will naturally follow.  So, slow the car down more on
entry, get the right line through the apex, and you can get on the gas
earlier.  This is the key to going fast.  The result will be lower
right front tire temperatures, better tire wear, and faster lap times.

ARCA Sim Racing Setup Cheat Sheet:

These setup suggestions represent a conventional approach to chassis
and suspension setup.  A 'Coil Bind' or 'Big Bar - Soft Spring' setup
approach may differ significantly, and is beyond the scope of this
document.  While there are a few things here that may be specific to
ARCA Sim Racing, almost all of this applies directly to real life car
setups.  These recommendations are what works best for me in ASR based
on my own experience.

Air Pressures

Qualifying - at end of run:

- Middle temps should equal or slightly exceed inside edge (relative
to track) temp.
- RR middle temp should be 10F hotter than inside temp.
- The right rear tire temp should be about 10F to 15F hotter than
the right front.

Race - after 10 to 20 laps:

- For long runs middle temps should equal average tire temp (M = (I+M
+0)/3).
- The right rear tire temp should be about 10F to 15F hotter than
the right front.
- For short races apply qualifying guidelines after 10 to 20 laps.

Camber

- Set front camber for a 10 to 15 temp spread across tread with the
inside edge (relative to track) hotter.
- Set rear camber to full

For the completely clueless:

- Oversteer = Loose =  The rear tires lose grip first.
- Understeer = Pushing = The front tires lose grip first.

If the car is pushing, you need to increase oversteer.  If the car is
loose, you need to increase understeer.

Overall Handling Problem Solutions:

Increase Oversteer

- Soften Sway Bar
- Soften Front/Stiffen Rear Springs
- Raise Both Sides of Track Bar Equally
- Increase Rear Weight Bias
- Increase Front Fender Flare
- Lower Rear Wing
- Increase Rear Brake Bias

Increase Understeer

- Stiffen Sway Bar
- Stiffen Front/Soften Rear Springs
- Lower Both Sides of Track Bar Equally
- Increase Front Weight Bias
- Decrease Front Fender Flare
- Raise Rear Wing
- Increase Front Brake Bias

Corner Phase Handling Problem Solutions (Entry, Apex, Exit):

Entry

Increase Oversteer

- Soften Right Front Spring
- Stiffen Right Rear Spring
- Raise Left Side of Track Bar
- Soften Right Front Shock Compression/Bump

Increase Understeer

- Stiffen Right Front Spring
- Soften Right Rear Spring
- Lower Left Side of Track Bar
- Stiffen Right Front Shock Compression/Bump

Apex

Increase Oversteer

- Raise Both Sides of Track Bar Equally

Increase Oversteer

- Lower Both Sides of Track Bar Equally

Exit

Increase Oversteer

- Lower Cross Weight (Wedge)
- Soften Left Rear Spring
- Increase Right Rear Spring
- Raise Right Side of Track Bar

Increase Understeer

- Raise Cross Weight (Wedge)
- Stiffen Left Rear Spring
- Increase Right Rear Spring
- Lower Right Side of Track Bar

Pat Dotson
UltraForce Simulations LLC
http://www.ultraforcesim.com

Wow,

Great read Pat ! :)

Thank you for sharing you setup advice

    There are 2 "inteligent" reasons to share setups -

    1/ Bragging - I'm so good I can share

    2/ To do it privately with a team mate or mates and have ever improving
setups - combined brainpower and man power.

    Then there are all the "weird" reasons.