rec.autos.simulators

Oddly enough, if a person only uses one eye (not by closing the other eye, but
habitually -- either only having one working eye or having one disabled by the
brain due to a fusion problem) -- that one eye can usually detect differences
better than two eyes can.  For instance, on average, two eyes cannot see a
difference between 25 and 28fps, but the person with one eye probably could.

Just another way the human body makes up for it's disabilities.

--
Kevin
(Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

  Here is my experience on frame rate:
I have a slow computer.  I tried Australia for ICR2 in hi rez.  My lap times with
most graphic options on sucked.  I tried and tried and could not get down near the
fast lap guys.  Then(while still in hi rez)  I turned off every option available.
It looked like ***and finding braking points was almost impossible, but very
shortly I started dropping 5 to 6 seconds a lap til by the time I finished an hour
of practice laps, my best time was over 20 seconds below my best with full
graphics and low frame rate.  CAR Control was the biggest diff.  The cpu could pay
attention to my imputs instead of stopping and starting while it was attempting to
draw all my graphic demand.  btw even with the 20 improvement, I was still off the
Fast lappers by 4 or 5 secs...later
dave henrie

This is just completely wrong, and contrary to all scientific data and
knowledge. Almost every human can detect to 60fps, some can go as high
as 120 fps.

Joe

% >the other way around. First of all your game engine must be capable of
% >delivering the requisite 25fps+, and only then do you start looking at
% >how many features and textures you can burden it with.

% To each his own, but I think this is total BS.  I bet if products didn't
% have a frame rate counter showing, 95% of the users out there would think
% they were running 30fps+ on a 15-18fps output.  Some people here have even
% claimed they can tell the difference between 27 and 30fps.  I don't buy it.

% My P100 with a Monster 3Dfx runs N2 at around 20fps, and MTM at around
% 18fps.  Both give a smooth sensation of driving from inside the***pit.
% Only when the rate drops below 15fps do individual frames begin jumping out,
% and only under 12fps is when I can begin recognizing almost each individual
% frame.

% Either 95% of you guys have absolutely amazing eyesight, or seeing Quake
% running at 45fps+ has made you believe that other games are actually pushing
% as much polygons and have as detailed simulation/AI/game logic as these
% sims.  Neither is true.

95% of us are not really talking about the "visual" frame rate per se.
It's the lag between perceiving where one is on the virtual track
(includes turns, corners, other cars, etc.) and our reaction via our
controllers and then again the lag with the screen being refreshed with
low frame rates.  Yeah, just looking at the scenery flash by, it's hard
to tell the difference between 18 and 25 fps.  But the difference in
being able to react and see the results is like noon and twilight (i.e.,
not quite night and day, but....).

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% > I do need a***pit to make me happy.  It would therefore be extremely
% > helpful to not only include the hardware when reporting frame rates, but
% > also the settings and the number of cars, plus the high, low and average
% > fps.
% >

%   Cmon Michael, why do you need a***pit. Just imagine your Superman,
% hehehehehehehehehehe. It's a bird, it's a plane, it's ............
% Besides, if your fast you don't need those mirrors. In fact Art Axlerad
% reckons it's a good excuse (hud mode) when you take someone out on the
% Zone, though I doubt he need worry much :)

Thanks! Now I understand.  I recall some of those great stop/action
animation movies awhile back where you see people floating in space as
they "drive" around a race track with their butts just a few inches off
the ground.  Now, that you suggest it, I think I will imagine I am
Wonder Woman in her invisible Reynard!  If you get too far ahead of me
I will lasso you in with my magic lasso....
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I don't know about anyone else but I can tell the difference of  framerates
10, 15, 30 and 60 (approximatelly).
"Scud Racer" in the arcades runs at 60fps and it looks smoother than anything
I've got at home (ie ICR2 which does 30fps all the time in Rendition mode),
then when I run GP2 which runs at about 15-20 frames that doesn't look
anywhere as smooth, actually quiete jerky, then when I run CPR with far
viewing distance and all the detail I get about 8fps and that is like turning
pages in a comic book.
Either way it "does" make a difference; I need framerate for the feel of
realism and withot it I don't get it... also I don't need a counter to know
when the fps is high and when it is low. It's amazing but you can see the
difference when standard ICR2 was running at 23fps and then dropped down to 15
at the start... I noticed the jekriness.
Just my point of view on this topic,
David Mocnay

Cheers!
John

Yep those pauses aren't real good and are nearly as bad as sneezing..

But 64mb ought to be enough for anyone :) maybe the 12mb voodoo 2 cards to fix
it.

Regards,
David

PAL is 25

My comment regarding movies running at 48 fps referred to the theater.

: >
: > Nonsense. The difference between 15-18 fps and 30 fps is like night
: > and day. Personally, I find anything less than 25 fps intolerable,
: > unplayable. At 30+ fps things become very comfortable. I'm looking
: > forward to Voodoo2 which should make 30+fps the norm.

: Most TVs display frames at around 25 fps.  The human eye cannot detect
: framerates above much higher than this.  This is why I cannot understand
: why so many of you *need* 30+fps to play a racing sim properly.  I play
: GP2 at 19.2 fps, and while its not perfect, it is definitely not
: unplayable.  

: -Jono Hill

*sigh* here we go again.  Yes you *can* detect framrates higher than that.
You can use Quake as an example (although many others as well).  Quake
running at 25-30fps is smooth.. get it running 50-60fps and you can easily
see a difference over the 30 frames.

It may be better, but I think it would still be noticably bad. In the UK
we have a 50Hz electricity supply & 60Hz monitor refresh rates still have
very noticable flickering.

And there again, 100Hz refresh rates are rock steady, even though there
would appear to be ample opportunity for strobing with the light source.

Cheers,
Richard

Hi folks,
Think we might be able to change the name of this thread? Perhaps something
like FPS? I dont know who originated this BS in CAPS but I do remember it
was a response to something I wrote about CPR and why I like it. It would
be good of us to remember all the young readers we have here and not have
to use this kind of titles. Sorry if this sounds preachy didn't mean it to
be. Aloha, Mike

You know what's happening in the audio industry? Since human being
cannot detect sound frequencies higher than 20KHz, the audio CD was
developed to record at a sampling rate of 44.1KHz, thus having the
ability to reproduce sound frequencies as high as 22.05KHz. Now, it's
being changed. Although human beings may not be able to detect
frequencies higher than 20KHz, we can feel it. So, a new sampling rate
of even 192KHz is being suggested. The same goes for the frame rate. We
may not be able to really see the difference between 25~30fps and
50~60fps. But we can feel the difference somehow.