rec.autos.simulators

N2002: Linear steering?

Dave Henri

N2002: Linear steering?

by Dave Henri » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:11:21

  GPL has full linerity by moving the slider left.  N4/N2k2 has the slider
reversed, you must move it to the right to get the same effect.
dave henrie


> yep, that's how I see it. Linearity or not, we simply don't know what the
> big guys use, and since the pot and your controllers characteristics may
> also affect the overall linearity, I think it is very difficult to say
which
> setting is more or less realistic.

> I do think though (apologies to all the guys who think the contrary) that
> fully linear is 0%, i.e. when the slider is fully to the left. That's how
it
> was in GPL for me, too.

> Another indication could be that 0% gives a more direct response directly
> around neutral, while something like 50% is less twitchy around neutral
but
> gives a better response the more you move away from neutral, which IMO is
a
> clear indication for non-linearity (i.e. moderate response at neutral,
with
> non-linearily increasing response the more you turn the wheel).

> But of course, I may be wrong :)

> Achim



> > "> I would think that's not easy to say as in the real world, non-linear
> > > steering can be used as well and we don't know whether or which team
or
> > > driver uses it, and using which ratio. Unless someone can confirm that
> > real
> > > Nascars never use non-linear steering or always use the same. I'm not
> sure
> > > whether the front axle geometry can add certain amounts of
non-linearity
> > as
> > > well, which would make it even more difficult.

> > From what I now understand, the linearity setting has nothing to do with
> the
> > realism within the sim, only with the controller's interaction with the
> > computer, i.e. to increase or decrease "dampening" of the input. The sim
> > still seems to model some of the racecar's inherent non-linearity with
> input
> > linearity at 100%. But I'm certainly no expert.
> > WS

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:17:58


...
...

I had cars that had non-linear steering. Do you know for sure that all
Nascars use linear steering?

That could be exactly what I mean. With fully linear, you may have to turn
the wheel more everywhere except around neutral to get a good response.
Thats the nature of non-linearity. Less direct around neutral to make it
easier to keep the car straight and avoid over-reactions, but then a
non-linear increase of wheel lock as the steering wheel is turned farther
away from neutral. Which would give exactly the impression you describe.

You _think_ I am ;-)

Achim

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:49:41

For me it's identical in both sims Dave. Am I a little stubborn? ;-)

I've repeated a couple of tests that I'd done after getting N2k2 and finding
that the labels for me don't coincide with the effect of the slider, and I
can only say that my impression has been confirmed.

I notice it for example when driving out of slow, tight corners. Slider
fully to the left gives me a linear wheel lock where I can turn the wheel
from lock to neutral at the same rate as I gradually align the car, while
slider like 50% to the right requires a non-linear steering profile.

Also when the car gets snappy and you need to make minimal corrections
around the wheel's centre position, with 0% I need to turn the wheel less
far into either direction to catch the car, the car response is far more
direct. At 50% I need to use more lock to get the same effect.

Funny stuff :-)

Achim


Stev

N2002: Linear steering?

by Stev » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 23:54:28

With 100% linear, the same amout of movement of your wheelm beit at the
centre of at near full lock will equal the same amount of movement on the
track. With less linearity the zone around the centre gets a lot less
sensitive. You are wrong on that, its a fact, why would they say that full
linearity is 0%, it doesnt make sense. Anyone here can go into N2002 and try
0% and 100% linearity and everyone will have more sensitive steering around
the centre with the linearity set to 100%.

--

__________

Steve

. At 100% the car is pretty twitchy.

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:05:16

I agree with your definition of linearity. Moving the steering wheel changes
the front wheel's lock always by the same amount, no matter what position
the steering wheel is in. But I get that with the slider at 0%.

Achim


jason moy

N2002: Linear steering?

by jason moy » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:16:06

On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:49:41 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"


>For me it's identical in both sims Dave. Am I a little stubborn? ;-)

Yes. =p

You had me worried, so I went and double checked and left is linear in
GPL, right is linear in N2k2.  I moved the slider in N2k2 fully to the
left and loaded Dover and I had to use over 50% of the travel of my
wheel just to fight the car's natural pull to the left.  I literally
can't complete a lap there with the slider fully left because it takes
so much travel just to keep the car straight.  With it set fully
right, I never have to move the wheel more than a few degrrees in
either direction.

I think I'd break my wheel if I had to use that much travel
constantly. =)

Jason

B.Farme

N2002: Linear steering?

by B.Farme » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:29:06

Gotta quit hackin' them .exe files, Achim.

;o)

Brian


> I agree with your definition of linearity. Moving the steering wheel changes
> the front wheel's lock always by the same amount, no matter what position
> the steering wheel is in. But I get that with the slider at 0%.

> Achim



> > With 100% linear, the same amout of movement of your wheelm beit at the
> > centre of at near full lock will equal the same amount of movement on the
> > track. With less linearity the zone around the centre gets a lot less
> > sensitive. You are wrong on that, its a fact, why would they say that full
> > linearity is 0%, it doesnt make sense. Anyone here can go into N2002 and
> try
> > 0% and 100% linearity and everyone will have more sensitive steering
> around
> > the centre with the linearity set to 100%.

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:37:26

This is indeed a riddle. We're probably watching the birth of a sim legend
here (in analogy to urban legends). But then again, it all started with
Grand Prix Legends, so maybe this was supposed to happen one day ;-)

Achim


> On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:49:41 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"

> >For me it's identical in both sims Dave. Am I a little stubborn? ;-)

> Yes. =p

> You had me worried, so I went and double checked and left is linear in
> GPL, right is linear in N2k2.  I moved the slider in N2k2 fully to the
> left and loaded Dover and I had to use over 50% of the travel of my
> wheel just to fight the car's natural pull to the left.  I literally
> can't complete a lap there with the slider fully left because it takes
> so much travel just to keep the car straight.  With it set fully
> right, I never have to move the wheel more than a few degrrees in
> either direction.

> I think I'd break my wheel if I had to use that much travel
> constantly. =)

> Jason

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:34:22

hehe, you caught me ;-)

Achim


Stev

N2002: Linear steering?

by Stev » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 02:23:30

Well, something must have gone wrong somewhere. Its weird that you have the
setup the opposite of everyone else. I'd do a reinstall and see if its still
the same.

--

__________

Steve


> I agree with your definition of linearity. Moving the steering wheel
changes
> the front wheel's lock always by the same amount, no matter what position
> the steering wheel is in. But I get that with the slider at 0%.

> Achim



> > With 100% linear, the same amout of movement of your wheelm beit at the
> > centre of at near full lock will equal the same amount of movement on
the
> > track. With less linearity the zone around the centre gets a lot less
> > sensitive. You are wrong on that, its a fact, why would they say that
full
> > linearity is 0%, it doesnt make sense. Anyone here can go into N2002 and
> try
> > 0% and 100% linearity and everyone will have more sensitive steering
> around
> > the centre with the linearity set to 100%.

jason moy

N2002: Linear steering?

by jason moy » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:40:24

On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:37:26 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"


>This is indeed a riddle. We're probably watching the birth of a sim legend
>here (in analogy to urban legends). But then again, it all started with
>Grand Prix Legends, so maybe this was supposed to happen one day ;-)

I'll submit your story to snopes.com for future reference, in case
anyone starts a chain letter or another thread mimicing your claims.

=p

Jason

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:00:32

please anonymize it beforehand - you never know <g>

Achim


> On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 18:37:26 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"

> >This is indeed a riddle. We're probably watching the birth of a sim
legend
> >here (in analogy to urban legends). But then again, it all started with
> >Grand Prix Legends, so maybe this was supposed to happen one day ;-)

> I'll submit your story to snopes.com for future reference, in case
> anyone starts a chain letter or another thread mimicing your claims.

> =p

> Jason


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