rec.autos.simulators

N2002: Linear steering?

jason moy

N2002: Linear steering?

by jason moy » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:53:39

That's really odd Achim, I've found the opposite to be true.

With the slider set to 100% I get a much faster response to wheel
movements.  If I set it to 0% it feels like the car doesn't want to
turn at all.

Jason

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:59:25 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"


>I think the labels are on the wrong side.

>With the slider to the right, the steering reacts far less to movements
>around the center. With the slider to the left, it's far twitchier around
>center. That's usually the consequence of a high linearity (i.e. movement on
>wheel equals wheel lock more or less, depending on lock setting in garage
>setup).

>Achim



>> > I take it that the 0% setting (fully to the left) is 'linear', and the
>> 100%
>> > setting (fully to the right) is 'non-linear'?

>> > Achim

>> I believe the opposite is true. I'd better make sure. I remember
>> the ends of the slider were marked "Linear" and "non-Linear" though.
>> WS

jason moy

N2002: Linear steering?

by jason moy » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:56:02

I just plugged in my old Wingman to test this out and the twitchiness
isn't quite as obvious in N2002 as it is in GPL, as far as the
on-screen wheel goes.

I'm not sure it the linearity sliders work the same way in both sims,
but I'd be surprised if they didn't.  You might try finding a good
linearity setting in GPL and then trying it out in N2002.  I dunno, I
use 100% in both. =)

Jason



>moyer) writes:

>>My recommendation for setting the linearity is to make sure you have
>>the wheel drawn in the***pit view so you can see what sort of
>>response you're getting to input.  Crank the linear slider to full
>>linear, and then lower it until the wheel stops twitching.

>Never though of that.  I'd disabled the wheel view, because I found it
>distracting...  I'll have to check that again.

>Eldred
>--
>Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
>My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

>Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

b..

N2002: Linear steering?

by b.. » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 07:57:58

         I'd be pretty flabbergasted if actual NASCAR cars used
nonlinear steering.  The problem with "closest to reality" is that
even the slowest steering ratio in the game is not likely to be as
slow as what is in a real car, since they have more turns lock to lock
than any *** wheel.
Jan Verschuere

N2002: Linear steering?

by Jan Verschuere » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:25:26

Ditto.

Jan.
=---

Mitch Alatorr

N2002: Linear steering?

by Mitch Alatorr » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:04:09

I run down near 5% just to give some "throw" to the wheel.  My thinkin here
is that I really have to crank it hard to get full lock which in turn kinda
helps on tire wear.  ECCI (others?) don't use springs/bungee which gives a
more linear throw throughout the range of travel. I don't own one but I
believe hydraulics.  This makes sense in that they all crank it to 100% or
far right and bungee/spring guys go more middle to left.

I think you have it bass-ackwards there Achim :)

Mitch


Mitch Alatorr

N2002: Linear steering?

by Mitch Alatorr » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 10:05:17

Gears...


bernard spilma

N2002: Linear steering?

by bernard spilma » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:58:54

"> I would think that's not easy to say as in the real world, non-linear

From what I now understand, the linearity setting has nothing to do with the
realism within the sim, only with the controller's interaction with the
computer, i.e. to increase or decrease "dampening" of the input. The sim
still seems to model some of the racecar's inherent non-linearity with input
linearity at 100%. But I'm certainly no expert.
WS

Mika Takal

N2002: Linear steering?

by Mika Takal » Sat, 20 Jul 2002 02:55:21



Wrong. Linear steering = the wheel on the screen and the front tires move
with your real life controller 1:1, and non-linear means that when you first
start turning your wheel, the steering on n2002 moves more slowly (and more
accurately) than your real life wheel, and when aproaching full lock, the
n2002 steeringwheel/tires gain turning speed and at full lock, again matches
the input you are giving with your desktop wheel.

The advantage of non-linear steering is that close to center, you can make
smaller corrections more easily, but it feels a bit ankward to drive with
this kind of unrealistic setting. Linear steering gives you a better and
more realistic feel of the simulated car, but can be tricky to drive. A
simdriver can learn fully linear steering quite fast, but it is not easy. I
have my steering about 80% linear as a good compromise between accurate
corrections and easy straight driving.

It isn't any kind of delay.

--
Mika Takala

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 02:08:04

Strange indeed :-)

Achim


> That's really odd Achim, I've found the opposite to be true.

> With the slider set to 100% I get a much faster response to wheel
> movements.  If I set it to 0% it feels like the car doesn't want to
> turn at all.

> Jason

> On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:59:25 -0000, "Joachim Trensz"

> >I think the labels are on the wrong side.

> >With the slider to the right, the steering reacts far less to movements
> >around the center. With the slider to the left, it's far twitchier around
> >center. That's usually the consequence of a high linearity (i.e. movement
on
> >wheel equals wheel lock more or less, depending on lock setting in garage
> >setup).

> >Achim



> >> > I take it that the 0% setting (fully to the left) is 'linear', and
the
> >> 100%
> >> > setting (fully to the right) is 'non-linear'?

> >> > Achim

> >> I believe the opposite is true. I'd better make sure. I remember
> >> the ends of the slider were marked "Linear" and "non-Linear" though.
> >> WS

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 02:11:55

On my system fully linear is 0% = slider fully to the left. I get a _much_
more direct response with the slider fully to the left. Funny? :-)

Achim


> I run down near 5% just to give some "throw" to the wheel.  My thinkin
here
> is that I really have to crank it hard to get full lock which in turn
kinda
> helps on tire wear.  ECCI (others?) don't use springs/bungee which gives a
> more linear throw throughout the range of travel. I don't own one but I
> believe hydraulics.  This makes sense in that they all crank it to 100% or
> far right and bungee/spring guys go more middle to left.

> I think you have it bass-ackwards there Achim :)

> Mitch



> > "jason moyer" wrote...
> > > That's really odd Achim, I've found the opposite
> > > to be true.

> > > With the slider set to 100% I get a much faster
> > > response to wheel movements.  If I set it to 0%
> > > it feels like the car doesn't want to turn at all.

> > Ditto.

> > Jan.
> > =---

Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 02:16:08

I forgot to say, this is btw the same way how it was in GPL for me - left =
linear.

BTW, getting a faster response alone isn't an indication of linearity -
linearity gives a faster response around neutral, but may give less response
than the non-linear setting the farther away you move the wheel from the
center position.

Achim


> On my system fully linear is 0% = slider fully to the left. I get a _much_
> more direct response with the slider fully to the left. Funny? :-)

> Achim



> > I run down near 5% just to give some "throw" to the wheel.  My thinkin
> here
> > is that I really have to crank it hard to get full lock which in turn
> kinda
> > helps on tire wear.  ECCI (others?) don't use springs/bungee which gives
a
> > more linear throw throughout the range of travel. I don't own one but I
> > believe hydraulics.  This makes sense in that they all crank it to 100%
or
> > far right and bungee/spring guys go more middle to left.

> > I think you have it bass-ackwards there Achim :)

> > Mitch

Larr

N2002: Linear steering?

by Larr » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:01:43

100

-Larry


Larr

N2002: Linear steering?

by Larr » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 12:02:27

All the way to the right is full Linear.

-Larry


Joachim Trens

N2002: Linear steering?

by Joachim Trens » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:52:34

yep, that's how I see it. Linearity or not, we simply don't know what the
big guys use, and since the pot and your controllers characteristics may
also affect the overall linearity, I think it is very difficult to say which
setting is more or less realistic.

I do think though (apologies to all the guys who think the contrary) that
fully linear is 0%, i.e. when the slider is fully to the left. That's how it
was in GPL for me, too.

Another indication could be that 0% gives a more direct response directly
around neutral, while something like 50% is less twitchy around neutral but
gives a better response the more you move away from neutral, which IMO is a
clear indication for non-linearity (i.e. moderate response at neutral, with
non-linearily increasing response the more you turn the wheel).

But of course, I may be wrong :)

Achim


Stev

N2002: Linear steering?

by Stev » Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:37:40


Linear is the most realistic as thats what the real cars use.

Thats completely wrong. At 0% I really have to turn my wheel to get any sort
movement from the car. At 100% the car is pretty twitchy.

I'm sorry to say that you are. At 0% you have to move your wheel a lot for
very little response but at 100% it is the exact opposite.

--

__________

Steve


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