rec.autos.simulators

by **David L. Coo** » Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:37:34

There is a difference between strapping your wheel on at an angle and
calibrating your wheel at an angle. You see that if I was a real driver and
my wheel was adjusted to compensate for the stagger I would not know it by
looking at the wheel. It would appear centered.

Problem here is that even if I calibrate my wheel to compensate and the
virtual wheel in N4 looks straight *my* wheel still isn't...

David Cook

> > You mean to tell us, Frank, that before they go out on the track each
> NASCAR
> > driver has to calibrate his wheel?

> Geeze ***y hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say,
instead
> of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying?

> Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC, to
> create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at an
angle
> when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap on their
> wheels at an angle.

> Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words so
that
> your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the English
language?

> Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in that
> case.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:01:44

What a wonderful response, Frank. Thanks for that incisive critiqu (a bit
of French there for you mate!)
Frankie, have you ever thought of writing French-English instructions for
the assembly of Chinese-manufactured folding deck-chairs? You'd be a sure
thing.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

by **David L. Coo** » Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:57:18

Oops! Got that one bass ackward <g> What I meant to say is that if I
calibrate my wheel at an angle (say 11:00) my real wheel is straight but my
*virtual* wheel is still crooked. We have to compensate for lack of sensory
feedback enough in racing simulations, it doesn't help to get these mixed
signals from the difference in wheel position.

If the real drivers are able to strap their wheels on at an angle, Papy
should give us the option to do the same IMHO.

David Cook

> There is a difference between strapping your wheel on at an angle and
> calibrating your wheel at an angle. You see that if I was a real driver
and
> my wheel was adjusted to compensate for the stagger I would not know it by
> looking at the wheel. It would appear centered.

> Problem here is that even if I calibrate my wheel to compensate and the
> virtual wheel in N4 looks straight *my* wheel still isn't...

> David Cook

> > > You mean to tell us, Frank, that before they go out on the track each
> > NASCAR
> > > driver has to calibrate his wheel?

> > Geeze ***y hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say,
> instead
> > of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying?

> > Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC,
to
> > create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at an
> angle
> > when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap on
their
> > wheels at an angle.

> > Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words so
> that
> > your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the English
> language?

> > Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in
that
> > case.

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> realise
> > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Pierre Robitaill** » Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:56:00

It's critique, not critiqu.

> What a wonderful response, Frank. Thanks for that incisive critiqu (a bit
> of French there for you mate!)
> Frankie, have you ever thought of writing French-English instructions for
> the assembly of Chinese-manufactured folding deck-chairs? You'd be a sure
> thing.
> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

> > Geeze ***y hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say,
> instead
> > of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying?

> > Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC, to
> > create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at an
> angle
> > when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap on their
> > wheels at an angle.

> > Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words so
> that
> > your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the English
> language?

> > Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in that
> > case.

by **ymenar** » Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:16:03

> There is a difference between strapping your wheel on at an angle and
> calibrating your wheel at an angle. You see that if I was a real driver
and
> my wheel was adjusted to compensate for the stagger I would not know it by
> looking at the wheel. It would appear centered.

Ok, just drill the wheel out of your steering shaft and strap it back
correctly.

Ok now?

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **ymenar** » Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:16:35

> Frankie, have you ever thought of writing French-English instructions for
> the assembly of Chinese-manufactured folding deck-chairs?

Your just trolling Bruce, pity on you.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Eldre** » Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:23:48

>Oops! Got that one bass ackward <g> What I meant to say is that if I
>calibrate my wheel at an angle (say 11:00) my real wheel is straight but my
>*virtual* wheel is still crooked. We have to compensate for lack of sensory
>feedback enough in racing simulations, it doesn't help to get these mixed
>signals from the difference in wheel position.

So if your *virtual* wheel is at an angle, couldn't you just turn it off? I
can understand how the visual feedback could***you up....

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPL hcp. +40.48

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:41:45

I would encourage anyone that has just got the demo to give it some time,
honestly I've gotten to where I like it, I don't even notice I'm correcting
for it down the straights anymore, and it really does seem to help the turn
in on the turns.
I also wonder if perhaps this "pull" caused by the stagger is different on
different wheel/pc setups.
If I didn't like it , I would simply recalibrate and compensate for it.
There must be something to it though, I mean Heat originally had it and N4
has it, they must know something.

--
Don Burnette
Dburn in N3 and Legends
ICQ# 74084566

> AGREED!

> > well, then give us the option to do that! Duh!
> > Phillip

> > > > I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on
> the
> > > > front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the right
> when
> > > > they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it...

> > > That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position
their
> > > wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY??

> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > -- http://www.WeRace.net
> > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
> > realise
> > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Dave Cas** » Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:37:04

Then turn the damn wheel off! I can't believe you people are still going on
about this. I turned the wheel off five minutes into the game and have never
turned it back on. Problem solved.

Dave Casey
Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com

by **David L. Coo** » Fri, 15 Dec 2000 23:40:07

I think the view without the wheel is pretty funny looking don't you?
You've got the steering column sticking out with nothing on it. I LIKE the
wheel. I just want to see what real drivers see. If real drivers bolt
their wheel on at an angle to adjust for stagger so that the center of the
wheel is at 12:00 when driving straight then we should be able to see ours
the same way IMO.

David Cook

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 16 Dec 2000 23:26:35

Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3.
dave henrie

by **Andre Warrin** » Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:15:56

>>Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3.

>or Heat..

I Heat the wheels pulls left if I remember correctly?

Andre

by **Jason Mond** » Sun, 17 Dec 2000 03:12:48

But you can use the trimmer to fix this.

Jason.

> >>Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3.

> >or Heat..

> I Heat the wheels pulls left if I remember correctly?

> Andre

--
Jason Monds
http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting.
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

by **Chris Bloo** » Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:17:12

My car in NASCAR Heat pulls slightly to the right? It tends to drift
towards the wall.

Chris

--

www.geocities.com/simbokza

Remove _your_clothes before replying

> >Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3.

> or Heat..

by **Don Jenning** » Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:17:54

I know I'm late to this party, Bob, but I have some questions for you. And I want to say up front that I have no doubt that real cars set up for an oval produce a fair amount of pull.

<bob> gave some ways to fix the "pull"...

On my wheel, moving linearity from the default to 100% reduced the amount of right turn I needed from almost 45 degrees to around 25-30 degrees.

Wouldn't these all slow the car down? Not an option ;-)

You want the pull left in the game because real cars pull, and I'm okay with any realism that Papy can put in the game. However all the talk here about the real drivers "re-centering" their wheel and sim drivers doing the same by recalibrating seems wrong. If the pros had to re-align their wheel left to compensate for pull they experience at speed, wouldn't their steering wheel be***ed left when they pit? They have to have the front wheels straight for a pit stop, yet they don't seem to need to turn the wheel 25 degrees left to make that happen. So while pull is realistic, turning right 25 degrees to go straight is clearly not.

My conclusion is that real drivers have to steer only slightly right on the straights to compensate for rear stagger alone. The other features of setup that cause the car to pull, most notably unequal tire pressures as you mentioned, are actually making the front wheels (and the steering wheel) try to turn left. The real drivers must compensate for that by applying clockwise force to the wheel to keep the car straight, not by turning the wheel right. Papy can't model that, so they've substituted an exaggerated "right-turn" response to simulate a realistic "force" response.

Again, I'm okay with everything that makes N4 more realistic, but if you have to move the wheel from 25 degrees right, to centered, to 50 degrees right, back to 25 degrees right, just to pass a slower car on the back stretch, it seems we've moved farther away from realism instead of closer. The fact that with practice we'll all get used to it, doesn't in my mind outweigh the feeling that this is a bad substitution of responses in the name of simulation. Having to hold the wheel slightly right makes sense, 25 degrees seems like unrealistic overkill.

rec.autos.simulators

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

The cure for the N4 pull "problem"