rec.autos.simulators

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

David G Fishe

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by David G Fishe » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I think the (by far) best thing to improve sims in the near future would be
a wide screen view. With wide screen HDTV's coming down in price, many of us
will have one in the next year or two.

I could swear I saw a pic from E3 which showed GP3 on a wide screen TV or
monitor. Anyone know for sure?

David G Fisher


JTW620

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by JTW620 » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

  I haven't had the fortune of playing GPL (yet!), but this scenario is quite
possible.  I don't know the specifics of the GPL cars, but if the center of
gravity is pretty far in the back and you've got tires that are nearly as
grippy up front, the rears can keep getting bigger and bigger slip angles until
WHOOOP!!!!  Round ya go!  Forward weight transfer, or lack of rear weight
transfer can do this (not in all cars and setups of course, but quite possible
in a "well" setup car).  
:-)
Todd Wasson
BTW.  Where can I get GPL online?

Jo Helse

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Jo Helse » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Someone took pics like that. I had the impression that it was shown on one of
those new plasma-screens. Big but also a rather poor resolution and sharpness.
Images seemed stretched out because obviously GP3 is not meant for 16/9 aspect
ratio.

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

David G Fishe

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by David G Fishe » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Hopefully they developers will start programming soon for the 16/9 aspect.
The monitor doesn't have to be big since we sit so close. Just wide. The
tunnel vision we have now is very unrealistic.

David G Fisher



> >I think the (by far) best thing to improve sims in the near future would
be
> >a wide screen view. With wide screen HDTV's coming down in price, many of
us
> >will have one in the next year or two.

> >I could swear I saw a pic from E3 which showed GP3 on a wide screen TV or
> >monitor. Anyone know for sure?

> >David G Fisher

> Someone took pics like that. I had the impression that it was shown on one
of
> those new plasma-screens. Big but also a rather poor resolution and
sharpness.
> Images seemed stretched out because obviously GP3 is not meant for 16/9
aspect
> ratio.

> JoH

> ------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
> --------------------------------------------------------------

Skeet

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Skeet » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

On Mon, 05 Jun 2000 11:07:34 +0200, Gregor Veble



>>   Does anyone have suggestions for improving the feel of future
>> sims??I figure with all the racing sim fans that come here that this
>> could be a great place for ideas.

>Actually, I've been toying with this idea for quite some time, and I
>think I've found a rather good solution.

>I don't think any additional sensors are needed. The problem with GPL
>and all other racing sims is that the viewing direction is always fixed
>along a specific axis with respect to the car.

>What would make it much easier to have a good grasp on the slip angle
>(the over-understeer) is if the view was pointed in the direction of the
>velocity vector instead, at least for higher velocities. That way when
>the car acquires a slip angle in a, say, right hand turn, the view
>remains looking into the direction where the car is going, but the whole
>cockpit rotates slightly towards the right due to the chassis slip
>angle. If an oversteer condition occurs, the chassis would start
>rotating even further to the right due to the increasing slip angle
>making it very easy for the driver to notice it.

I too have thought this would be a great way for more feel.When I
steer into a turn I want to get some feedback as to wether the car is
turning in or washing out.Now if the***pit moved in a
clockwise/counterclockwise plane in relation to the drivers head it
would give more feel.Enter a turn alittle to fast and the***pit will
look the way it does now to signal no turning force at the front.As
the car slows and the fronts start to grab youll see the inside front
wheelmove more towards the inside of the turn.It doesnt have to be
drastic and the maximum movement could be just whee the inside tire
hits the edge of the screen at which point you know that your about to
lose it.I totally feel that this would give sooo much more feel to GPL
and future sims but once again Randy Cassidy had posted a reply that
took away my confidence in this theory.He stated that they tried it in
GPL but it made the car feel like it was wallowing about.I hope he and
Papy are wrong but there most likely right:((((

- Show quoted text -

Pat Dotso

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Pat Dotso » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Even better than a meter, simply translating the
G-force generated by the car into turning
resistance on a FF wheel would do the trick.

--
PD


> How about a G-meter?

Pat Dotso

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Pat Dotso » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

If you want to see what a reallllly wide view
is like, try this:

In F12K, go to the
\F1 2000\Season00\Tracks\<track>\<track>.scn
file, and open it with a text editor.

Near the top of the file, under the
"View=mainview" section, look for the line:

ViewFOV=(77.75, 62.50)

The first number controls the view angle
in the***pit view.  You can adjust it
to whatever you want.  I like it at about
90 degrees.  You really get a better feel
for where you are in the corners, and
for where the other cars are at.

--
PD


> That's why a wide field of view as in GPL is needed. Apex needs not be
> in the center of the screen, it only needs to be somewhere on it.

ddun

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by ddun » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

when GPL was introduced NOV **1998**  (im sure someone will
correct me if im wrong:)  the graphics were spectacular,
assuming your top of the line p2 333 could handle it...  I think
that in an industry where most games look dated the day after
release, the fact that people are *still* buying and playing
(sorry, *driving* :)) GPL says a lot for how far ahead of its
time it was, and is.  Moaning about the graphics on a 1.5 year
old game is, if not petty, uninteresting to say the least..
Of course GPL is not perfect, but when every other "sim" i try
feels dead and uninspired in comparison, i gotta say that papy
did something very right in creating GPL.

One other thing that i've seen mentioned here, about gpl's lack
of sales.. I can't imagine that anyone at papy really expected a
game based on a year of racing before the majority of
computer "gamers" was born, would really do well at the Comp
Usa's and EB's of the world..  My feeling has always kinda been
that Kaemmer and crew were allowed to make gpl as a sort
of "payback" for the high volume nascar sims, while using the
new physics engine as bait..  It really seems like a labor of
love, and almost deliberately uninviting to the average gamer.
Not something you'd expect from a commercially directed sim..
with sierra's lack of marketing really backing up my argument IMO
Hmm.  Ok, offa the soapbox!
Big thank you to papy for making GPL...
ddunk

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Michael Youn

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Michael Youn » Tue, 06 Jun 2000 04:00:00

GPL models the aligning torque on the front tires. What you feel through
your hands is pretty close to what you would get. A slip angle indicator for
the rears might prove useful (I doubt it), but it doesn't substitute
properly for the yaw indicator built into our backsides.

Michael.


Hena H?kk?ne

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Hena H?kk?ne » Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:00:00



It's already been done ... by the king of sims: GPL! :)))

Hena

wtonsm..

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by wtonsm.. » Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:00:00

I think more could be done with sound. If there were many more
variations of the skid sound, say 10 .wav files instead of one, it
could provide valuable additional feedback.

Many other good ideas in this thread as well.

Heaven forbid we should think that simulating the driving experience
will never be done better than GPL, as great as it is.

Cheers, wtonsmann

==================================



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Joe6

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Joe6 » Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:00:00


>Hve you ever dove into a corner in GPL and wondered and waited for
>something to tell you what the car is doing?

Not since the FF patch, no.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

Gregor Vebl

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Gregor Vebl » Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> I totally feel that this would give sooo much more feel to GPL
> and future sims but once again Randy Cassidy had posted a reply that
> took away my confidence in this theory.He stated that they tried it in
> GPL but it made the car feel like it was wallowing about.I hope he and
> Papy are wrong but there most likely right:((((

Well, I STILL have the feeling in GPL that the cars are wallowing about
:). Seriously, I didn't know that they tried it. Thanks for the info.
But they could have left it as an option, couldn't they?

It might look that way in GPL, but with more modern racing series the
idea might just be worth trying out again as the slip angles are much
smaller there.

-Gregor

Gregor Vebl

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by Gregor Vebl » Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> I think more could be done with sound. If there were many more
> variations of the skid sound, say 10 .wav files instead of one, it
> could provide valuable additional feedback.

Actually, F1 2000 has this implemented, as the pitch of the squeal is
different if you are close to the limit or far beyond it. It really does
have an impact.

-Gregor

tx

Sim Car Feedback-(Long)

by tx » Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:00:00





>> Well your understeer/oversteer idea is really good but you can always
>argue
>> that it doesn't exist in real cars, although it is possible with a good
>> telemtry system such as the one from PI research.

>> On the other hand if you take into account that '67 drivers had to had
>their
>> telemetry "in the ass" because their ass was the sensor for inline G,
>> lateral G, understeer and oversteer it is clear that they have an
>advantage
>> over us because my seatis not moving when i play GPL (although) it has
>> wheels so it could move...)

>> Discussion opened.

>I didn't know they had such high-tech asses in '67.

Well,

lateral G, Inline G is not so high tech, here's the way to recognize them.

1)Have your girlfriend kick you in the ass next time you play GPL for
hours, that's INLINE G

2)Being angry after step 1 go into your real car, and in the middle of the
first roundabout you pass strongly pull the handbrake, at first you will
feel POSITIVE LATERAL G, when you hit the curb af the side of the road you
will fell a very short but strong NEGATIVE LATERAL G.

There you go with a unexpensive high tech G sensor....


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