rec.autos.simulators

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Every other major racing sim has a save feature.

Hi,
   Why would Sierra/Papy exclude the "Save Game" feature if SOME
people think the feature would decrease the realism of the game?  Let
the people who want realism (and have a lot of time on their hands)
run the race through with out saving the game.  Let the rest of us use
the "Save Game" feature.  It seems sort of silly to me that
Sierra/Papy would take out a feature that is just a option, you don't
have to use it if you don't want to!

John

 -- Winners never quit, quiters never win

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
/Ralph Williams      My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\

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I remember Bill Ellott's NASCAR Challenge, the one race game where I
could win at Atlanta, Darlington and Michigan with the same setup!
Well... at least BENC has Daytona!  I remember test drive too,
actually that game was sort of fun!  I loved out running those cops!

John

 -- Winners never quit, quiters never win

On Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:51:40 -0500, "Aw C'mon!"

* "ungrateful whiners" - Defined as those who whine "when will it be
out???" inceasantly, complain "you said it would be out, now it's a
day late, stop lying to us!!!", *** that "I paid good money for this
game two years ago -- what do you mean I don't get the new version as
an upgrade?!?", and moan "I got it, but it doesn't do everything I
wanted it to do (never mind that the product wasn't advertised to do
that in the first place) and I want a patch IMMEDIATELY!!!".  ;)

Pick one or more: Model Rockets (competition-NERCB) / PCs (even Atari!) /
Papyrus ICR-ICR2-NCR / Who needs a life when you have multiple non-lives?

I think the general assumption here is that somehow they made a decision to
take out the save game feature. That is not the case, it was never
implemented in any form.

Also, as far as I know, the decision had nothing to do with "realism" as
I've heard argued here. I think a better way to look at it is if they had
decided to implement the Save feature, then something else wouldn't have
made it into the game.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

And of course, when some sort of patch, or upgrade, or whatever that fixes
the bugs comes out, you won't get it, right?  Shut up your whining about us
whinning, and race.  When / if anything comes from our whining, feel free
not to become a hypocrite by downloading, and using the new and improved
product.

* hypocrite *  someone who complains about the complainers, yets reaps the
benifits of their having done so.

Wonder how it is
running.

Think were talking two different area's now.

Good for you.

Q.B.M.

| > Lack of save game is a FUNDAMENTAL FLAW, and unless I hear of a fix
| > I won't buy N2.
| >
| > Mike Excell
| Give people all the gold then they turn around and want platinum.......

Well, Papyrus has demonstrated (since  ICR2) that it has a problem
with releasing things before they've been adequately debugged and made
"user friendly." Given the all-out hatred that occured when ICR2 was
released unready, and then not patched for 9 months, you think  they'd
have learned. But NASCAR for the Playstation (just released), which is
sort of a hybrid between N2 and the old N1, is also shot full of bugs.
It is usable, but only when you catch it "just right." I can start a
track, and one out of every three or four times, I'll have no skid
sounds, then next time, I'll have no engine sounds- and then sometimes
both. But that is the least of it. Every time I start the damn thing I
have to recalibrate my wheel/pedals, and various other things, because
it simply doesn't save, *ever*, controller settings. And just as bad,
some of the time, it even seems to lose my preferences settings too;
it claims it couldn't read the card, but no other playstation game I
have ever has a problem.

Who knows; *maybe* I have a defective CD. But then, I know Papyrus,
especially since Sierra... and this is what I've come to expect..

NASCAR for Playstation isn't a total loss; it is  worth the money, it
is usable. But I must admit that I don't use it a lot because the idea
of completely setting everything up again when it loses my preferences
is exhausting, and recalibrating the wheel every time is a chore.

| On Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:51:40 -0500, "Aw C'mon!"

[edited]

| >Regarding GP2, I think I'd be more
| >upset with the "all cars perform the same," framerates so butt-slow that
| >you can't run the game on a cray, canned 180 degree spins, automatic
| >brakes applied when you enter the pits, cartoonish dash board with game
| >setting cluttered all over it, etc., than I would a save race feature.

Since you brought it up, it reminded me that the GP2 Demodisk being
passed out at stores seems to have done away with the "canned spin."
In general, it seems to be an improved version. I wonder when it will
be in the boxed program... anyway, I am deeply ***ed to Psygnosis'
F1 now (playstation) at the moment, so they can take their time.

|    I may differ on the details of your post, but I strongly endorse
| your closing sentiment.  Sometimes I wish some of the ungrateful
| whiners* on here would just send NASCAR2 back to Sierra (they *do*
| have a money-back guarantee) and end their suffering.  ;)

Papy/Sierra will always have it's customers, but they always ask for
the flames too. The whole ICR2 debacle really did turn me off;
complain as much as you like about the "whiners", but it was sort of
unbelievable the degree to which Sierra let ICR2ers hang with an
unusable product- 7 months.  They really did lose a whole slew of
devoted fans; there was a general sense that because it was ICR2 (a
series Papy openly admitted wasn't going to be continued) and not
NASCAR (their stable money winner), ICR2ers could all go to hell.

I'm going to wait a while before I buy N2. I want to hear the whole
deal here first, so people- feel free to "whine away."

   Second, in this particular case, the race save feature is *not*
going to get fixed by a patch, so I have no danger of profitting from
such a patch.

   Finally, if I have a valid complaint or suggestion for a vendor, I
send it directly to them, instead of wasting my time blowing off steam
in this forum (no matter how satisfying it may be ;).

Pick one or more: Model Rockets (competition-NERCB) / PCs (even Atari!) /
Papyrus ICR-ICR2-NCR / Who needs a life when you have multiple non-lives?

I feel Papyrus left the SAVE game feature out of Nascar2 for one reason.
The First and foremost was for online gameing. On hawaii there
are just to many people with the mentality of "When I crash, I'll just
restart". I think this was partially due to the fact that most users got use
to the "safety net" that a SAVE game feature allowed when playing single
player. In turn, most users forgot one of the most important part of REAL
racing, PATIENCE, PATIENCE. Now some may say this isn't REAL racing,
but I feel that NASCAR1 and NASCAR2 are meant to be as pure of a SIM as
possible. And if someone isn't interested in participating within those
parameters, their are many other ARCADE/SIM raceing games available
for both single player and online gameing. I for one have improved alot since
"losing" the game save feature. I now have more of a RACERS mentality of
SURVIVAL....
And thats REAL SIM RACING,
                                Wayne

We do, and we will.  Rest easy.  In the meantime, I will continue to play
N2 as much as I can.  And whine about any bug, or left out feature, I find.
 The whiners who whine about us whining will just have to put up with us.
Or ' add us to their kill file '.  Now there is a real punishment!!!  :-)