rec.autos.simulators

by **akco..** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>Well, you can probably blame the beta testers in part for not
>fighting harder for it. For myself, I rarely used the Save
>Race feature in NASCAR 1 because it was so lame. I hope I'm
>not giving away any great secrets, but we each gave Papyrus
>a shopping list of things we wanted fixed or added, and I
>think for most of us, the Save feature was pretty low on the
>list. In fact, it wasn't even on mine. :(

Great. This is part of the problem with having the game beta tested
by only the hard-core experts. This feature might not be important to
your average Hawaii hotshot, but to the average joe that can just sit
down for 1/2 to 1 hour at a time to race, it's vital. Shame on Papy
for being so short-sighted. It really annoys me to see a couple of
dumb design flaws and obvious bugs (the save setup not working with
min install, for one) tarnish an otherwise spectacular game :(

David

*** You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever ***

by **Aw C'mon** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> In article , John says...
> >If the Beta testers are to blame for this - then so be it - They made a
> >disatrous error for not considering THIS item as fundimental to the
> >integity of the the main premis of this product.

> Jeff Haas

The save race option was discarded primarily because it creates several
programming problems. The Nascar 1 save feature never worked very well,
and was quite limited. It really has nothing to do with realism, it's
more a matter of time and tools. Regarding GP2, I think I'd be more
upset with the "all cars perform the same," framerates so butt-slow that
you can't run the game on a cray, canned 180 degree spins, automatic
brakes applied when you enter the pits, cartoonish dash board with game
setting cluttered all over it, etc., than I would a save race feature.
Remember folks, it was only a few years ago that all we sim racers had
to look forward to was Test Drive, or Grand Prix II by Accolade, or Bill
Elliott's NASCAR challenge, or Days of Thunder. Those games only
allowed you to race against six or eight cars that displayed no
real-world characteristics whatsoever. So shuddup and drive!

by **ra..** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>> ummm, can't you pause it? turn off the monitor and get back to it
>> later... all is not lost, unless you want it to be...

>Only if you don't want to do anything else on the PC in the meantime.
>Lack of save game is a FUNDAMENTAL FLAW, and unless I hear of a fix
>I won't buy N2.

>Mike Excell

Hmmm....aren't you guys all running NR2 under Win95? From what I see
here I figure you all are.
Why not pause the race and switch out to your desktop and do what
ever you want?
As long as you leave the system on all should be well when you come
back and have time to finish.
Hope this helps you,
Ralph<Ralphw on Hawaii>Williams

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
/Ralph Williams My real .sig file is in the shop getting repaired.\

/----------------------------------------------------------------------\

by **Don Mullin** » Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> > ummm, can't you pause it? turn off the monitor and get back to it
> > later... all is not lost, unless you want it to be...

> Only if you don't want to do anything else on the PC in the meantime.
> Lack of save game is a FUNDAMENTAL FLAW, and unless I hear of a fix
> I won't buy N2.

> Mike Excell

Give people all the gold then they turn around and want platinum.......
--
The wise man can pick up a grain of sand and envision a whole universe,
but the stupid man will just lay down on some seaweed and roll around
until he's completely draped in it. Then he'll stand up and go, "Hey,
I'm Vine Man." Jack Handey.
GO #2!

by **Robert Johnso** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> >run 50 lap races at Michigan!! And even if you DO run say a 50% race
(for
> >example..94 laps at Dega)..what if you have completed 75 of those laps
> >and,
> >for some reason and/or emergency have to stop the race? The ENTIRE race
> >has been WASTED!!! You MUST start all over again! This feature is not
some

> ummm, can't you pause it? turn off the monitor and get back to it
> later... all is not lost, unless you want it to be...

PAUSE it!! Why leave that in if the SAVE is removed? How is that more
realistic than a save option?

by **Dan Harn** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>Save feature was pretty low on the
>>> list. In fact, it wasn't even on mine. :(

>It's a real pain to have to race the whole 'race weekend' in one
>sitting. Did you guys all have several hours to kill at a sitting???
>Seems like that should be a BIG thing to include.

>Richard

I agree, it's *ridiculous* not to have a 'Save Game' feature, in ANY
game! After all, this is something we do in our spare time, when we
are not working, right? I've got a few other things to do than sit
down for four or five hours racing, but I enjoy a few laps now and
then. If I do decide to race for a couple of hours, and some idiot
bangs me up in the pits, I lose the whole weekend? C'mon, gimme a
break! I'm not a hard core Nascar guy, but I HAVE ordered a T2
because I enjoy the racing!

The fact that IE 3.01 is *killed*, everytime I run the game in Win95
isn't exactly a pleasureable experience either. Again, I have better
things to do than reinstall IE every time I want to run Nascar2 from
Win95. I can imagine all the Dads, Moms, and Kids who run into this
one on Christmas day...it won't be pretty! :-(

Dan

by **George Lew** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>> ummm, can't you pause it? turn off the monitor and get back to it
>> later... all is not lost, unless you want it to be...

>PAUSE it!! Why leave that in if the SAVE is removed? How is that more
>realistic than a save option?

lessee here... it doesn't start you out with a yellow flag, all cars
lined up in order, with cold temps (i.e., not superhot tires if you
should happen to have burnt them up and the car isn't handling worth a
flip)

pause doesn't do any of those...

granted, if they made a save race option that was essentially the SAME
as pause, then there's nothing wrong with it. in essence, I feel that
the save game ommission took another chunk of "cheating" out of the
game.

by **Karl Rau** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>REPLY:
>Ok smarty pants. You can't save or pause in multiplayer mode. Now
>what's your solution?
>:)

Oh, um, m, ah, oh, well, oh, um, what was the question? ;)

But it IS what Papyrus beleives, isn't it? :) <-Big evil grin

***********************************************
* *
* Karl aka The Dobeman *
* Clan member of Zealot Wroth *
* *
***********************************************
* *
* 1996 Ninja 500 1995 VW Golf *
* 1995 Wife & 1990 Doberman *
* *
***********************************************

by **Robert Johnso** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Ah, but my point is, is that the purist here say remove everything that
isn't 'real'. Pausing is real? So what happens is I am racing, the
doorbell rings, and it is a friend who plans to stay an hour or so? Leave
the computer 'paused' while they visit? And if the kids wanna play on the
'puter I just have to suck it up and quit, or be an A.H. and tell them to
go play in the yard or something? Not here in this house.

I have been playing N2 for a week now ( almost ) and haven't seen one thing
that would convince me to delete N1 off of my system. Till they get the
bugs out, and add back some real world options, the game will just be
something I show off the computer graphics on. Or at least I would if the
Rendition Version was close to how the ICRII Rendition version is. My poor
old P5 -120 just can't run the sucker at what 'I' call an acceptable
framerate. And from what I have been reading, some of those PP200's are
catching hell too, so I don't feel that bad. And from the other end of
reality, those P75 guys who run with everything on at an amazing
framerate....... well, I just find that amazing, or as our pal Mike T.
would say, ' that's ludicrous '.

Cheating....Cheating..... Come on, lets get off the cheating thing. I
don't want to cheat on you, I just want to save my current race AS IS. And
this is the same for most of us out here ' whining ' about the lack of said
feature. Yes, just like a pause, but one I can start again in an hour, a
day, or a week. That's all I want.... today. :-)

by **Robert Johnso** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> The fact that IE 3.01 is *killed*, everytime I run the game in Win95
> isn't exactly a pleasureable experience either. Again, I have better
> things to do than reinstall IE every time I want to run Nascar2 from
> Win95. I can imagine all the Dads, Moms, and Kids who run into this
> one on Christmas day...it won't be pretty! :-(

Are you still having problems wiht MSIE 3.01 and Nascar? Since the first
episode, I have ran N2 from Win95 with no ill effects to IE 3.01. But then
again, I haven't stuck the CD back in either... And my auto play feature
is turned off on my CD's.

Anyway, I thought that was a Sierra install and trash routhine that was the
problem?

by **chaspa..** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

It is simply a MONUMENTAL BLUNDER!!! The fact is that FEW people have 3-4
hours to sit and race straight thru. And it is also very tiring and
draining
to do so anyway...I don't know about you guys but I start to get
cross-eyed
after about an hour or so....it was so nice to save the race and come back
rested and focused. Now I have to play the game at the GAMES convenience,
in other words, I have to PLAN in advance WHEN I can sit down for a few
hours to play..(can you imagine?..."sorry honey, we can't go to that party
because today is Nascar 2 day!" We OWN the game, the GAME shouldn't OWN
us) as opposed to starting and running say 20 laps before I go to work,
saving, and coming back later to run some more laps, saving, coming back,
etc. until the race was finished. The PRIMARY reason Adam gave me was
"time constraints". Clearly, I believe that Sierra pressured them to have
it released BEFORE Christmas.(Although I'm sure Adam would deny this) They
simply cut a corner to do so. The problem is of course, it was an
ERMORMOUSLY critical
feature...one we didn't ASK for in the pre-release wish lists because we
EXPECTED it! After all, Nascar1 and Indycar2 BOTH had them (Papyrus'
previous releases) This was a 5 star game that I would now give a 4 star
rating
(on the lack of this option ALONE!) because of the absurdity of this
decision. If Papyrus does not patch this in the coming months, I believe
they will have slightly tarnished their reputation with some of their best
customers. Chuck Brennan

by **Mike Excel** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> Hmmm....aren't you guys all running NR2 under Win95? From what I see
> here I figure you all are.
> Why not pause the race and switch out to your desktop and do what
> ever you want?
> As long as you leave the system on all should be well when you come
> back and have time to finish.
> Hope this helps you,

This might work for some people, but unfortunately whilst my machine is
running Win95, when it isn't being used for sim racing it gets used for greedy
ray tracing and graphics programs which just won't accomodate other tasks
running at the same time. Since I want to run 100% races, and N2 won't let me
do that, there's no point in me buying it which is rather disappointing to me
to say the least.

Mike Excell

by **B Morph** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

> Hmmm....aren't you guys all running NR2 under Win95? From what I
see
>here I figure you all are.
> Why not pause the race and switch out to your desktop and do what
>ever you want?
> As long as you leave the system on all should be well when you
come
>back and have time to finish.
> Hope this helps you,
> Ralph<Ralphw on Hawaii>Williams

REPLY:

Keep talkin around it. In a million years I might join your side of the
argument?

Let alone I get, Win '95 can't restore the dos session. So No. I can't
do want your saying.

Q.B.M.

by **David Spark** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

>> Well, you can probably blame the beta testers in part for not
>> fighting harder for it.

>Nah, we are to busy balming you guys for the screwed up installation
>routine!! :-)

LOL!

I just use the Pause key.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. We were asked to give our opinions, and
we did. Unfortunately, due to an NDA I signed, I'm not supposed to talk
about what we did during beta testing. I can assure you that the choice we
were given was not as simple as to whether to include the Save feature or
not.

I don't know how they picked the beta testers. I have a wife and two
daughters. I run a small business that takes up about 60-70 hours a week of
my life. I have never run a 100% race in NASCAR. Do I fit the profile you
had in mind?

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

by **Robert Johnso** » Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:00:00

Actually, no. Kinda imagined you a nerd who never left the house! :-)

Actually, you seem like someone would want the save feature. But then
again, guess you don't do too many of them (100% races ) in your late night
league, huh?

rec.autos.simulators

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