rec.autos.simulators

> > (Yeah, i was there...and startled the
> > Prince Sovereign of Monaco after the race.
> > But i won't bore anyone with that story...;-)

> No no, do tell it, I'm intrigued ;-)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Can-Am?  Yassir!  Now them was real racin' cars!

> > Alex,

> > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's plans--I
> > don't.  But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial sales
> of GPL
> > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight another
> 1.
> > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends fared
> even
> > worse, I hear).  However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in
> Hollywood
> > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French masters
> that
> > there is life left in one or both of these genres.  I wouldn't pick
> 1972,
> > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more "marquee
> value"),
> > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the present
> that
> > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man.

> > --Steve

> > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or not?
> Please
> > > give us a hint if you know anything :-)

> > > Alex

> > > > Brrraaaappp!  (Wrong.  They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in Europe,
> but
> > that's
> > > > not the same thing as selling them.)

> > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so
> difficult,
> > 1972
> > > > cars
> > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in N4
> will
> > make
> > > > it
> > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL.

> > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well.  I've
> heard
> > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe over
> the
> > > years
> > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on the
> > shelves.
> > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very hard
> to
> > > find.

> > > > > --
> > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Ok. But I think you are just kidding me?
> I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat.
> I watched from the Pelouse Rocher to give the palace
> hill side its proper name -- 40f.
> The rain turned the paths down into treacherous muddy slides.
> Women were literally screaming when their guys tried to lead
> them to safety. I ended up sliding down the hill part of the
> way so was covered with mud. Saw the end near the gas works.
> Asked a man with an umbrella -- "who was leading?" This immaculately
> dressed guy in his 20's took one look at me and just grunted
> his displeasure at my presence. I went to the Monaco Red Cross
> and requested that they mobilize the Monaco army (all 20 of them?)
> to help those damsels get down from the mountain. She smiled at
> me, but didn't grunt.
> The race finishes. I am wet, cold and muddy. My rental car is still
> miles away parked in the *** garden auxiliary parking lot.
> My hotel is in Nice. It is getting dark. I am naturally in a
> hurry to get to hotel and get warm again. I am still delighted that i
> finally got to see my first MC Grand Prix, but am getting more and
> more frustrated by the snail pace of the thousands of fans leaving
> the area of the track -- my observation after 23 visits to GP's in
> Europe -- The people they Drive Fast but they walk-like-ZOMBIES!
> So here I am weaving in out of foot traffic on and off the sidewalk,
> not even looking out for the dog poop when all of a sudden my way
> is blocked by this big black car with motorcycle escorts. Now I get
> my Italian/Irish temper up to full revs (the French/English part of
> the mix is not in control) -- I walk over to the right rear
> window of that car and I set my face in the worst scowl of contempt that
> I can muster at the person there in. The Prince recoils at the sight,
> and I am so embarrassed that I forgot to see if the beautiful Princess
> Grace was sitting beside him.
> arcman

> > > (Yeah, i was there...and startled the
> > > Prince Sovereign of Monaco after the race.
> > > But i won't bore anyone with that story...;-)

> > No no, do tell it, I'm intrigued ;-)

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Great post, arcman!

> > Ok. But I think you are just kidding me?
> > I had decided to go to Monaco too late for reserved seat.

> Dave K. has said repeatedly that his main (only?) interest is in
> single-seater racing, so I wouldn't count on seeing any Can-Am cars,
sedans,
> or tractor pulls from him.  Personally, I love endurance racing (more
my
> speed), but I don't think the Internet is ready for 4-hour stints.
For that
> matter, I wouldn't hold my breath for WSC, either, although I sure
would
> like to see that plothound hunt!

> --Steve

> > Can-Am?  Yassir!  Now them was real racin' cars!

> > > Alex,

> > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's
plans--I
> > > don't.  But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial
sales
> > of GPL
> > > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight
another
> > 1.
> > > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends
fared
> > even
> > > worse, I hear).  However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in
> > Hollywood
> > > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French
masters
> > that
> > > there is life left in one or both of these genres.  I wouldn't
pick
> > 1972,
> > > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more
"marquee
> > value"),
> > > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the
present
> > that
> > > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man.

> > > --Steve

> > > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or
not?
> > Please
> > > > give us a hint if you know anything :-)

> > > > Alex

> > > > > Brrraaaappp!  (Wrong.  They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in
Europe,
> > but
> > > that's
> > > > > not the same thing as selling them.)

> > > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so
> > difficult,
> > > 1972
> > > > > cars
> > > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in
N4
> > will
> > > make
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL.

> > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well.
I've
> > heard
> > > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe
over
> > the
> > > > years
> > > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on
the
> > > shelves.
> > > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very
hard
> > to
> > > > find.

> > > > > > --
> > > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato
Dominguez
> > > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> It isn't so much the endurance racing aspect that attracts me to Can-Am,
> WSC, LMS, etc. as it is the cars and tracks themselves.  The Can-Am
> series existed when I was just becoming interested in cars as a kid, and
> I remember thinking that these were serious, no limits race cars.  Not
> quite true, of course, but that's why I have that nostalgia for them,
> and why I am also attracted to more recent open***pit/closed wheel
> formulas.  Plus the whole open***pit/closed wheel thing is great for
> computer ***.  Think about it - as with open wheelers you can have a
> true***pit view but with relatively few obstructions to visibility,
> but you also have the advantage of the closer racing that is possible
> with closed wheels.  Plus it seems like sports cars in general still
> race on more interesting (i.e. chicane free) tracks.  Oh well, just have
> to wait for WSC I guess.

> > Dave K. has said repeatedly that his main (only?) interest is in
> > single-seater racing, so I wouldn't count on seeing any Can-Am cars,
> sedans,
> > or tractor pulls from him.  Personally, I love endurance racing (more
> my
> > speed), but I don't think the Internet is ready for 4-hour stints.
> For that
> > matter, I wouldn't hold my breath for WSC, either, although I sure
> would
> > like to see that plothound hunt!

> > --Steve

> > > Can-Am?  Yassir!  Now them was real racin' cars!

> > > > Alex,

> > > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's
> plans--I
> > > > don't.  But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial
> sales
> > > of GPL
> > > > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight
> another
> > > 1.
> > > > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR Legends
> fared
> > > even
> > > > worse, I hear).  However, the extraordinary "afterlife" ("legs" in
> > > Hollywood
> > > > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French
> masters
> > > that
> > > > there is life left in one or both of these genres.  I wouldn't
> pick
> > > 1972,
> > > > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more
> "marquee
> > > value"),
> > > > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the
> present
> > > that
> > > > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man.

> > > > --Steve

> > > > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or
> not?
> > > Please
> > > > > give us a hint if you know anything :-)

> > > > > Alex

> > > > > > Brrraaaappp!  (Wrong.  They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in
> Europe,
> > > but
> > > > that's
> > > > > > not the same thing as selling them.)

> > > > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so
> > > difficult,
> > > > 1972
> > > > > > cars
> > > > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model in
> N4
> > > will
> > > > make
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL.

> > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well.
> I've
> > > heard
> > > > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in Europe
> over
> > > the
> > > > > years
> > > > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years on
> the
> > > > shelves.
> > > > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are very
> hard
> > > to
> > > > > find.

> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > > > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato
> Dominguez
> > > > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>   Just last night I saw the Brands Hatch Racing Car Club film from 1967.
> (way to go Speedvision  errr Nascarvision) There in all it's glory was the
> Chapparrall of Phil Hill spanking the world's biggest marques...stirring
to
> see that big wing sitting up there
>   Can Am....I would love to see a well done historical sim of that ...
> dave henrie

> > IMHO, Can-Am is probably one of the greatest series there ever was.
> > Virtually no rules and lots of extremely nice, fast and innovative cars
> and
> > engine combos...
> > Just 2 seats, a spare tire and a big engine!

> > Like I''ve said so many times before.... I sometimes wish I was born 30
> > years earlier..

> > --
> > ed_
> > The GPLEA
> > --------------------------------------
> > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson.
> > Spell it, please.
> > - E-F-R.
> > No, no, spell your name.
> > - E-F-R!!

> Haq,

> The thing that *should* interest Papy abt. Can-Am is the panoply of
> strategic choices that would enhance game-play (never Papy's long
suit).
> The early Can-Am was all abt. innovation, not rules & equivalency
formulae:
> Hall went with wings and auto trannies; Don Nichols had those tiny
little
> titanium cars with monster motors; McLaren had Chevy Rat motors; Hall
came
> back with a long, skinny, low-drag car (a complete bust) and redeemed
> himself with the sucker car; Huffaker tried--basically--Repco motors;
Lola
> went with the tried & true GT-40 underpinnings in a conventional car;
Tony
> Dean tried the nimble, agile Porsche "Flunder;" Holman, Moody &
Andretti
> tried a Ford J-car roadster (the ill-fated Honker); Ferrari
contributed a
> 512; Posey tried de Dion tubes; etc.  Everybody had a different take
on the
> One True Path.  In the end, first McLaren, then Penske/Porsche
prevailed,
> but that was *only* in real life.  In a sim, at least in a recreation
of the
> early years of the Can-Am, anybody could win...theoretically...and
therein
> lies the game play.  It is not the Papyrus "way" to have gimmicks
extrinsic
> to the racing itself (like earning play money to soup up yer car, or
proving
> yerself in Destruction Derbies to earn an FIA Superlicense), they
should
> offer us choices like which car to drive (or, in a F1 sim, the
dial-a-lap
> Turbo Era, or, in CART, a choice between fuel economy or the
"overtake"
> button) which would make life...or the racing itself...interesting.
In
> other words, stuff that has to do with what they're good at--the
physics
> model--and forget all the cute gimmicks like Motor City Online.  The
play's
> the thing...as Shakespeare said.

> --Steve

> > It isn't so much the endurance racing aspect that attracts me to
Can-Am,
> > WSC, LMS, etc. as it is the cars and tracks themselves.  The Can-Am
> > series existed when I was just becoming interested in cars as a kid,
and
> > I remember thinking that these were serious, no limits race cars.
Not
> > quite true, of course, but that's why I have that nostalgia for
them,
> > and why I am also attracted to more recent open***pit/closed wheel
> > formulas.  Plus the whole open***pit/closed wheel thing is great
for
> > computer ***.  Think about it - as with open wheelers you can
have a
> > true***pit view but with relatively few obstructions to
visibility,
> > but you also have the advantage of the closer racing that is
possible
> > with closed wheels.  Plus it seems like sports cars in general still
> > race on more interesting (i.e. chicane free) tracks.  Oh well, just
have
> > to wait for WSC I guess.

> > > Dave K. has said repeatedly that his main (only?) interest is in
> > > single-seater racing, so I wouldn't count on seeing any Can-Am
cars,
> > sedans,
> > > or tractor pulls from him.  Personally, I love endurance racing
(more
> > my
> > > speed), but I don't think the Internet is ready for 4-hour stints.
> > For that
> > > matter, I wouldn't hold my breath for WSC, either, although I sure
> > would
> > > like to see that plothound hunt!

> > > --Steve

> > > > Can-Am?  Yassir!  Now them was real racin' cars!

> > > > > Alex,

> > > > > I don't mean to imply that I have any foreknowledge of Papy's
> > plans--I
> > > > > don't.  But I do know how disappointingly meager their initial
> > sales
> > > > of GPL
> > > > > were; small enuf that I never thought Sierra would greenlight
> > another
> > > > 1.
> > > > > road-racing sim, and/or 2. another historic sim (NASCAR
Legends
> > fared
> > > > even
> > > > > worse, I hear).  However, the extraordinary "afterlife"
("legs" in
> > > > Hollywood
> > > > > parlance) of GPL may have been enuf to convince their French
> > masters
> > > > that
> > > > > there is life left in one or both of these genres.  I wouldn't
> > pick
> > > > 1972,
> > > > > either (or even F1; I'd think Can-Am would have a lot more
> > "marquee
> > > > value"),
> > > > > but I'd gratefully take any road-racing sim from 1937 to the
> > present
> > > > that
> > > > > Dave Kaemmer's involved with and die a happy man.

> > > > > --Steve

> > > > > > Steve, do you have any info on whether this could be true or
> > not?
> > > > Please
> > > > > > give us a hint if you know anything :-)

> > > > > > Alex

> > > > > > > Brrraaaappp!  (Wrong.  They GAVE AWAY 120,000 copies in
> > Europe,
> > > > but
> > > > > that's
> > > > > > > not the same thing as selling them.)

> > > > > > > > > The main reason GPL didn't sell well is that it is so
> > > > difficult,
> > > > > 1972
> > > > > > > cars
> > > > > > > > > with the improvements made to the low speed tyre model
in
> > N4
> > > > will
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > allot easier to learn than GPL.

> > > > > > > > It's almost now a myth to say that GPL didn't sell well.
> > I've
> > > > heard
> > > > > > > > contradictory information that GPL sold very well in
Europe
> > over
> > > > the
> > > > > > years
> > > > > > > > (over 100,000), and still continue to sell after 3 years
on
> > the
> > > > > shelves.
> > > > > > > > All the "classic" repackaging have been sold, they are
very
> > hard
> > > > to
> > > > > > find.

> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > > > > > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > > > > > > > -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > > > > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato
> > Dominguez
> > > > > > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...