rec.autos.simulators

> --
> Slot

> Tweaks & Reviews
> www.slottweak.com

> > Maxx,

> > I was at Indy in '67 when Parnelli Jones ran the STP turbine car
("Silent
> > Sam") and was sitting down by the creek in Turn 1 during qualifying.
When
> > the turbine came thru the corner, it was so quiet that you could hear
the
> > tub working - it  was creaking like a boat at anchor - and, yes, the car
> was
> > on bias-ply slicks.  They didn't squeal, exactly, but you could hear
them
> > grumbling in protest as they scuffed through the turn.

> > --Steve

> > > Hi

> > > Gary,

> > > Just a few quick responses, I'm missing my dinner sat here :(

> > > >He also mentioned tire squeal. I'm not sure that it isn't modelled
> right
> > in
> > > >GPL. I believe they still used bias belted tires back in '67 and it
> > didn't
> > > >take much to get them squealing, especailly in a 4 wheel drift or
> losing
> > it
> > > >in a corner. In fact, even after radial tires were introduced, a lot
of
> > race
> > > >car drivers preferred bias belted because they gave more warning of
> when
> > the
> > > >car was losing traction. The loss was more gradual than radial tires.
> The
> > > >other thing is that Malcolm hasn't raced an F1 car from that period
so,
> > > >while he can draw on racing experience in general, he can't really
say
> > how
> > > >these particular cars handled.

> > > I mentioned tire squeal as not being realistic for slick tires.
> > > Generally any treaded tire will squeal if pushed to sliding. I've
> > > often wondered if the old crossply's did in fact squeal as I've
> > > never heard it on any video (in car and external) of a 67 GP
> > > car.

> > > This could be that they didn't squeal (or not loudly) or that the
> > > drivers of the day didn't push them to the levels where they would
> > > squeal as loudly as we hear in GPL.

> > > >So, I didn't agree with everything he said, but I think Malcolm did
an
> > > >admirable job trying to answer a question that wasn't phrased
properly.
> > He
> > > >did make it clear when he was looking at it from a training point of
> view
> > > >and when he was looking at it from a sim racer's viewpoint.

> > > Thanks for that - of course if I'd expected everyone to agree it
> > > would have been pointles posting it :)

> > > >Perhaps the question should have been 'which sims leave you with the
> best
> > > >overall impression of real life racing?'

> > > The n I would have had to type a LOT more words :) LOL

> > > Cheers

> > > Maxx

> > >Aliens can expoit flaws to go fast.
> > >GPL isn't realistic because of the limited tyre model (*gasp* I'd
> > >*never* heard that before)

> > There are lots more reasons why GPL isn't realistic but I wasn't
> > specifically talking about GPL, and PLEASE DONT ask me to be
> > specific about GPL.Maybe one day I will but I really will need a
> > flame proof suit for that one :)

> You know, if it's coming from someone who talks sense, I don't think you'd
> need that suit...

> I do like GPL but don't play it so much now.  Assisting in running an
N2002
> league takes up most of my sim time!  I may have sounded like a GPL/Papy
> Nazi (newsgroup legend, IMO) but I sometimes can't help responding to
posts
> by a certain contributor, who, as Jan Verschueren put it in another
thread:
> "hasn't, in my recollection, posted about or quoted an article without an
> agenda.".  And it *was* before 5 cups of coffee...

> >The most interesting revelation is that modding Nascar Heat may provide
the
> >greatest basis for providing the most race car like experience in the
author's
> >experience. Whilst out of the box it certainly doesn't.

> I downloaded and installed that Ferrari360 mod the author was talking
> about as being the most realistic and the wheels lock up and smoke
> everytime I just touch the brake. Is that realistic?

> Steve,

> On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 01:06:35 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >Malc!

> >(Gulp!)  No dis intended; none taken I trust.

> No of course not, my reply was in jest, hence the :) you are not the
> first to suspect I had taken on a marketing role at MGI :)

> >I must admit your lengthy
> >monograph intrigued me sufficiently to revisit NH.  I liked the initial
game
> >(so much more customer-oriented than Papy's stern, punishing gameplay!)
and
> >had intended to mess around w. Spirit of Heat (d/l'd everything but the
> >latest iteration), but never got around to it.  Inspired by your
description
> >of the Ferrari F360's physics, I spent this morning d/l'ing all the
Ferrari
> >Challenge files and a dozen 'maps' (i.e., tracks), and intend to spend
the
> >weekend sampling your wares.  I admit I shouldn't have shot my mouth off
> >without doing this FIRST, but I do wish you'd stuck to the specifics of
your
> >role in the Ferrari F360--how you got the physics to where it felt right
to
> >you--which I'm sure I'd find fascinating, and spent less time on
> >philosophy/opinion, which is all too abundant on the internet.

> I'm sure it would but it wasn't the seemingly innocent question
> that I answered and everything since has sort of cascaded from
> that. I agree there is lots of philosophy and opinion around and
> I didn't want my post to be solely that, hence my (granted very
> wordy) post and follow ups. I know some folks want more
> substance and although I'm still unsure how exactly I can word
> some of it, I will try.

> >Again, sorry if I offended.  Consider this a public apology.  Will report
> >back my findings on the Ferrari F360 ASAP.

> Great, I'd be interested to know what you think. You can try any
> track you wish but please ensure you use one of the "-360" setups
> as these cars are very sensitive to setups, the default Nascar setups
> remove most of the feel from the car. Also, that you run in ***
> mode.

> The cars we get to drive (in the instring work I do) are pretty much
> standard and the "SOFT" setups feel very much like that. I did
> quite a bit of testing at Sachsenring as there is a wide variety of
> corners and some interesting camber etc.

> There is a little variation in Heat tracks also (as there are grip
> related settings in the track file itself) so you may find some
> variation in the driving experience.

> Maxx

> > Maxx,

> > No joy.  I spent all day at this, and all I got to work was NH itself,
> > not the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> > The file at OSRC said to install, in the following order:

> > NASCAR HEAT (in it's default install location)
> > No CD Patch (REQUIRED)
> > 1.73 Patch (REQUIRED)
> > then the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> > Installed NH, no prob, but when I ran the noCD patch, its batch file
> > generated the following error message:

> > -----------
> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>rename data run
> > File not found - data

> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>Move binkw32.dll run
> > Cannot move binkw32.dll - No such file or directory

> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>move drivers.dat run
> > Cannot move drivers.dat - No such file or directory

> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
> > -------------

> > There is a readme in the noCD executable that says, in part:

> > "In the iso game [presumably the writer means the CD] there should be
> > a run folder.  In that run folder is a Data folder."

> > However, there is no Data folder in the run folder on the CD - in
> > fact, there are no folders in the run folder at all; only 87 files.

> > I followed the remainder of the instructions and moved the other
> > files/folders from the CD to the C:\Program Files\Hasbro
> > Interactive\NASCAR Heat folder, but when I clicked on the executable,
> > I got the following error message:

> > -------------
> > Unable to copy race.bin!
> > (C:\PROGRAM FILES\HASBRO INTERACTIVE\NASCAR HEAT\Run\race.bin -->
> > C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\heat.bin)
> > -------------

> > Note: There is no race.bin file in first path above, nor is there a
> > heat.bin file in the second path.

> > Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

> > P.S. I did run a few races on NH (which patched perfectly to ver.
> > 1.73), Daytona and the Glen; my first forays into the game since it
> > originally appeared two years ago, and found the physics simplistic if
> > forgiving.

> > --Steve

>    Mods on Heat can be tricky to first get running but then they are
> extremely simple.  First you need to cover some basic issues.
> Did you do a FULL install of Heat?  Did you NOT CHANGE the installation
> path?  Heat is very very very picky about where it sits on your hard
drive.
> You CAN move it around but that makes the mod installers confused.  For
> ease of use, let it install itself in the default pathway on your boot
> drive.
>   You can find a multipatch/nocd utility at the tptcc league site.  Link
> from the uspits.com.   That will take your  Heat install, create the nocd
> files/folders and patch it...I don't think it has been updated to 1.73
yet,
> but once you get the 1.72e installed with the multipatch, the newer 1.73
> installs right over it.
>   Only after you have run Heat and tested it's native winston cup cars
> should you attempt to install a mod.
> dave henrie

> Some progress.  NH itself runs fine (the the stockers run like Jacques
> le Ursine on all 16 road courses I d/l'd - hoo-ah!).  After a lotta
> fiddling, I got the Ferrari Challenge to run fine as well (I did about
> a zillion laps of Brands in what appeared to be a red F40, no prob).
> I even got the Ferrari 360 mod to run...once.  Thereafter, it gets as
> far as the 3D screen, then crashes to the desktop.  A perusal of the
> log yields (among a cornucopia of seemingly irrelevant data):

> "Couldn't load ModelInfo Ferr360.car/high1.mod"

> I couldn't find this item.  Is it a file?  A command-line argument?  A
> replacement for Viagra?

> Any further help also much appreciated.  TIA.

> --Steve

>> > Maxx,

>> > No joy.  I spent all day at this, and all I got to work was NH
>> > itself, not the Ferrari Challenge mod.

>> > The file at OSRC said to install, in the following order:

>> > NASCAR HEAT (in it's default install location)
>> > No CD Patch (REQUIRED)
>> > 1.73 Patch (REQUIRED)
>> > then the Ferrari Challenge mod.

>> > Installed NH, no prob, but when I ran the noCD patch, its batch
>> > file generated the following error message:

>> > -----------
>> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>rename data run
>> > File not found - data

>> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>Move binkw32.dll
>> > run Cannot move binkw32.dll - No such file or directory

>> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>move drivers.dat
>> > run Cannot move drivers.dat - No such file or directory

>> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
>> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
>> > -------------

>> > There is a readme in the noCD executable that says, in part:

>> > "In the iso game [presumably the writer means the CD] there should
>> > be a run folder.  In that run folder is a Data folder."

>> > However, there is no Data folder in the run folder on the CD - in
>> > fact, there are no folders in the run folder at all; only 87 files.

>> > I followed the remainder of the instructions and moved the other
>> > files/folders from the CD to the C:\Program Files\Hasbro
>> > Interactive\NASCAR Heat folder, but when I clicked on the
>> > executable, I got the following error message:

>> > -------------
>> > Unable to copy race.bin!
>> > (C:\PROGRAM FILES\HASBRO INTERACTIVE\NASCAR HEAT\Run\race.bin -->
>> > C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\heat.bin)
>> > -------------

>> > Note: There is no race.bin file in first path above, nor is there a
>> > heat.bin file in the second path.

>> > Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

>> > P.S. I did run a few races on NH (which patched perfectly to ver.
>> > 1.73), Daytona and the Glen; my first forays into the game since it
>> > originally appeared two years ago, and found the physics simplistic
>> > if forgiving.

>> > --Steve

>>    Mods on Heat can be tricky to first get running but then they are
>> extremely simple.  First you need to cover some basic issues.
>> Did you do a FULL install of Heat?  Did you NOT CHANGE the
>> installation path?  Heat is very very very picky about where it sits
>> on your hard
> drive.
>> You CAN move it around but that makes the mod installers confused.
>> For ease of use, let it install itself in the default pathway on your
>> boot drive.
>>   You can find a multipatch/nocd utility at the tptcc league site.
>>   Link
>> from the uspits.com.   That will take your  Heat install, create the
>> nocd files/folders and patch it...I don't think it has been updated
>> to 1.73
> yet,
>> but once you get the 1.72e installed with the multipatch, the newer
>> 1.73 installs right over it.
>>   Only after you have run Heat and tested it's native winston cup
>>   cars
>> should you attempt to install a mod.
>> dave henrie

> >You must have missed his point.  He didn't say F360 mod was the most
> >realistic of the 3.  He said it had enough realism to reasonably simulate
> >driving and at the same time it introduced the LEAST amount of
unrealistic
> >oddities that negatively impact realism so as a whole it's the BEST
driver
> >trainer.

> >BTW, if you use the right set-ups and tweak your pedals I think the
braking
> >in F360 improves.  It needs some dead zone for finesse.  I was locking
the
> >brakes too quickly until I tweaked a bit.  Still not GTR 2002 realism but
> >again comparing the depth of one feature wasn't his point.

> What would you know about realism Joe? You're the one that was telling
> everyone TIR is realsistic. Hehe.

>No joy.  I spent all day at this, and all I got to work was NH itself, not
>the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> > Thanks, Dave.

> > Some progress.  NH itself runs fine (the the stockers run like Jacques
> > le Ursine on all 16 road courses I d/l'd - hoo-ah!).  After a lotta
> > fiddling, I got the Ferrari Challenge to run fine as well (I did about
> > a zillion laps of Brands in what appeared to be a red F40, no prob).
> > I even got the Ferrari 360 mod to run...once.  Thereafter, it gets as
> > far as the 3D screen, then crashes to the desktop.  A perusal of the
> > log yields (among a cornucopia of seemingly irrelevant data):

> > "Couldn't load ModelInfo Ferr360.car/high1.mod"

> > I couldn't find this item.  Is it a file?  A command-line argument?  A
> > replacement for Viagra?

> > Any further help also much appreciated.  TIA.

> > --Steve

> >> > Maxx,

> >> > No joy.  I spent all day at this, and all I got to work was NH
> >> > itself, not the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> >> > The file at OSRC said to install, in the following order:

> >> > NASCAR HEAT (in it's default install location)
> >> > No CD Patch (REQUIRED)
> >> > 1.73 Patch (REQUIRED)
> >> > then the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> >> > Installed NH, no prob, but when I ran the noCD patch, its batch
> >> > file generated the following error message:

> >> > -----------
> >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>rename data run
> >> > File not found - data

> >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>Move binkw32.dll
> >> > run Cannot move binkw32.dll - No such file or directory

> >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>move drivers.dat
> >> > run Cannot move drivers.dat - No such file or directory

> >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
> >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
> >> > -------------

> >> > There is a readme in the noCD executable that says, in part:

> >> > "In the iso game [presumably the writer means the CD] there should
> >> > be a run folder.  In that run folder is a Data folder."

> >> > However, there is no Data folder in the run folder on the CD - in
> >> > fact, there are no folders in the run folder at all; only 87 files.

> >> > I followed the remainder of the instructions and moved the other
> >> > files/folders from the CD to the C:\Program Files\Hasbro
> >> > Interactive\NASCAR Heat folder, but when I clicked on the
> >> > executable, I got the following error message:

> >> > -------------
> >> > Unable to copy race.bin!
> >> > (C:\PROGRAM FILES\HASBRO INTERACTIVE\NASCAR HEAT\Run\race.bin -->
> >> > C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\heat.bin)
> >> > -------------

> >> > Note: There is no race.bin file in first path above, nor is there a
> >> > heat.bin file in the second path.

> >> > Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

> >> > P.S. I did run a few races on NH (which patched perfectly to ver.
> >> > 1.73), Daytona and the Glen; my first forays into the game since it
> >> > originally appeared two years ago, and found the physics simplistic
> >> > if forgiving.

> >> > --Steve

> >>    Mods on Heat can be tricky to first get running but then they are
> >> extremely simple.  First you need to cover some basic issues.
> >> Did you do a FULL install of Heat?  Did you NOT CHANGE the
> >> installation path?  Heat is very very very picky about where it sits
> >> on your hard
> > drive.
> >> You CAN move it around but that makes the mod installers confused.
> >> For ease of use, let it install itself in the default pathway on your
> >> boot drive.
> >>   You can find a multipatch/nocd utility at the tptcc league site.
> >>   Link
> >> from the uspits.com.   That will take your  Heat install, create the
> >> nocd files/folders and patch it...I don't think it has been updated
> >> to 1.73
> > yet,
> >> but once you get the 1.72e installed with the multipatch, the newer
> >> 1.73 installs right over it.
> >>   Only after you have run Heat and tested it's native winston cup
> >>   cars
> >> should you attempt to install a mod.
> >> dave henrie

>   some of the things we recomend til a mod is running right, is to turn
off
> the ghost car option(in the track setup menu),  use LOW DETAIL cars(in the
> graphics area), and limit the carfield to 22 or less.(back in the track
> setup area).  The key line of the error log is about 2/3rds of the way
> down, where it starts with:
> Panic:  can't....  It sounds like you found that line.  It may be you have
> the cars set to high detail and the mod makers didn't include that level
of
> detail.
> dave henrie

> >Maxx,

> >No joy.  I spent all day at this, and all I got to work was NH itself,
not
> >the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> Steve,

> Sorry I didn't respond, I got quite tied up in forum post replies.
> Seems like Dave got you going OK though (Thanks Dave).

> I see you still have some probs, have read Dave's reply
> and agree 100% so hopefully you will get it sorted. If you
> still have probs your welcome to mail me (just remove
> the GPL's from the email address here).

> Maxx

> > > Thanks, Dave.

> > > Some progress.  NH itself runs fine (the the stockers run like Jacques
> > > le Ursine on all 16 road courses I d/l'd - hoo-ah!).  After a lotta
> > > fiddling, I got the Ferrari Challenge to run fine as well (I did about
> > > a zillion laps of Brands in what appeared to be a red F40, no prob).
> > > I even got the Ferrari 360 mod to run...once.  Thereafter, it gets as
> > > far as the 3D screen, then crashes to the desktop.  A perusal of the
> > > log yields (among a cornucopia of seemingly irrelevant data):

> > > "Couldn't load ModelInfo Ferr360.car/high1.mod"

> > > I couldn't find this item.  Is it a file?  A command-line argument?  A
> > > replacement for Viagra?

> > > Any further help also much appreciated.  TIA.

> > > --Steve

> > >> > Maxx,

> > >> > No joy.  I spent all day at this, and all I got to work was NH
> > >> > itself, not the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> > >> > The file at OSRC said to install, in the following order:

> > >> > NASCAR HEAT (in it's default install location)
> > >> > No CD Patch (REQUIRED)
> > >> > 1.73 Patch (REQUIRED)
> > >> > then the Ferrari Challenge mod.

> > >> > Installed NH, no prob, but when I ran the noCD patch, its batch
> > >> > file generated the following error message:

> > >> > -----------
> > >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>rename data run
> > >> > File not found - data

> > >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>Move binkw32.dll
> > >> > run Cannot move binkw32.dll - No such file or directory

> > >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>move drivers.dat
> > >> > run Cannot move drivers.dat - No such file or directory

> > >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
> > >> > C:\Program Files\Hasbro Interactive\NASCAR Heat>
> > >> > -------------

> > >> > There is a readme in the noCD executable that says, in part:

> > >> > "In the iso game [presumably the writer means the CD] there should
> > >> > be a run folder.  In that run folder is a Data folder."

> > >> > However, there is no Data folder in the run folder on the CD - in
> > >> > fact, there are no folders in the run folder at all; only 87 files.

> > >> > I followed the remainder of the instructions and moved the other
> > >> > files/folders from the CD to the C:\Program Files\Hasbro
> > >> > Interactive\NASCAR Heat folder, but when I clicked on the
> > >> > executable, I got the following error message:

> > >> > -------------
> > >> > Unable to copy race.bin!
> > >> > (C:\PROGRAM FILES\HASBRO INTERACTIVE\NASCAR HEAT\Run\race.bin -->
> > >> > C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\heat.bin)
> > >> > -------------

> > >> > Note: There is no race.bin file in first path above, nor is there a
> > >> > heat.bin file in the second path.

> > >> > Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

> > >> > P.S. I did run a few races on NH (which patched perfectly to ver.
> > >> > 1.73), Daytona and the Glen; my first forays into the game since it
> > >> > originally appeared two years ago, and found the physics simplistic
> > >> > if forgiving.

> > >> > --Steve

> > >>    Mods on Heat can be tricky to first get running but then they are
> > >> extremely simple.  First you need to cover some basic issues.
> > >> Did you do a FULL install of Heat?  Did you NOT CHANGE the
> > >> installation path?  Heat is very very very picky about where it sits
> > >> on your hard
> > > drive.
> > >> You CAN move it around but that makes the mod installers confused.
> > >> For ease of use, let it install itself in the default pathway on your
> > >> boot drive.
> > >>   You can find a multipatch/nocd utility at the tptcc league site.
> > >>   Link
> > >> from the uspits.com.   That will take your  Heat install, create the
> > >> nocd files/folders and patch it...I don't think it has been updated
> > >> to 1.73
> > > yet,
> > >> but once you get the 1.72e installed with the multipatch, the newer
> > >> 1.73 installs right over it.
> > >>   Only after you have run Heat and tested it's native winston cup
> > >>   cars
> > >> should you attempt to install a mod.
> > >> dave henrie

> >   some of the things we recomend til a mod is running right, is to turn
> off
> > the ghost car option(in the track setup menu),  use LOW DETAIL cars(in
the
> > graphics area), and limit the carfield to 22 or less.(back in the track
> > setup area).  The key line of the error log is about 2/3rds of the way
> > down, where it starts with:
> > Panic:  can't....  It sounds like you found that line.  It may be you
have
> > the cars set to high detail and the mod makers didn't include that level
> of
> > detail.
> > dave henrie