rec.autos.simulators

by **Ashley Miskell** » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:51:50

There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the
back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately
the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us
contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl
performance.

For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a
Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or
getting an AMD mobo and Duron.

The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory
bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft
Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this
bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL?

Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do
u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to
recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or
user experiences to support this?

There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory
bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months
would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory
bandwidth?

by **jlohma** » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:00:36

The biggest difference between a PIII (tualatin core), and an Athlon is not
the memory bandwidth but the floating point unit. Although the Athlon does
have greater memory bandwith as well, but the biggest difference you'll see
is the massive floating point unit of the Athlon. The Athlon is the king of
GPL. No Intel chip can compete with the Athlon here. Not even the fastest
P4.
The most important thing in GPL is the floating point unit. GPL is a big
time number crunching sim. It's not real flashy, so even run of the mill
video cards have no problem with GPL.
Now, with all that being said, any 1 gig or better chip should have no
problem with GPL. It just doesn't require a state of the art 2 gig system to
get a decent frame rate out of GPL. Nascar 4 on the other hand is another
story (from what I hear). It's any one's guess as to which CPU would be
better for WSC. If they do all the Intel optimizations (like Quake 3), then
the P4 will be faster, if not, the Athlon will rule here as well.

by **Milhous** » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:21:38

IMO, it's not a hard choice -at all-. The Tualatin upgrade is in the $180
range - for $187.43, I could get a Shuttle AK11, Athlon 1.33, and a HS/Fan
shipped to my door from www.newegg.com. Only thing is chances are you'll
need a new powersupply, one that can put out 180w or more on the +5/3.3v
rails combined. A Duron gig would be about $50 -less- than that, but it's
out of stock at the moment, so I couldn't even add it to my cart just to get
a quote. =P

I doubt GPL is affected by it much; but LOTS of other things are.

Milhouse

by **Rafe McAuliff** » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:27:00

Agree with all you are saying here, pretty much on the money. One
other thing worth mentioning here is that GPL also takes full
advantage of a large L2 cache. Thus, the Athlon XPs and Tbirds do even
better with GPL than the Durons. That said, price is a biggie here,
and dollar for dollar you aint gonna beat the duron.

Celerons really suck for GPL (when compared with the Duron) and P3s
and P4s are alright, but not worth it in my view, the Athlon is a lot
faster for your dollar.

Video cards - a GF2 pro/ultra or Radeon 7500 minimum in my view. GF2
MX is OK, but not worth it if you are upgrading from something slower.

Rafe Mc

by **Steve Garrot** » Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:07:16

CPU, video only comes into play when the CPU is strong enough.

SLG

>There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the
>back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately
>the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us
>contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl
>performance.

>For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a
>Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or
>getting an AMD mobo and Duron.

>The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory
>bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft
>Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this
>bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL?

>Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do
>u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to
>recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or
>user experiences to support this?

>There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory
>bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months
>would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory
>bandwidth?

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new
and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are
due to too many English classes/teachers)

by **Ken MacKa** » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:51:14

Initially ran GPL on a cel400 on a 440bx board with a v3 2000. Tried
overclocking the V3 but it made no difference to gpl so I left it at the default
speed. Last year I installed a cel950 in the same system and the improvement in
gpl was dramatic, could bump the resolution a notch or two and add a few more
graphic options. With the new cpu I overclocked the V3 again to the speed of
the 3000 and this time there was some improvement, a few more fps, but nothing
like the improvement the new cpu gave.

Just my experience.
Ken

> There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the
> back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately
> the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us
> contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl
> performance.

> For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a
> Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or
> getting an AMD mobo and Duron.

> The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory
> bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft
> Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this
> bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL?

> Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do
> u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to
> recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or
> user experiences to support this?

> There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory
> bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months
> would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory
> bandwidth?

by **Jens H. Kruus** » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 02:06:47

<Snip!>

Another budget card that does very well is the Kyro II (eg. Hercules Prophet
4500). The Kyro chip is very CPU dependent, so you shouldn't match it up with an
old cpu.

/Jens

by **Milhous** » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:19:14

Personally, I can't recommend this card much; I've got it in a Athlon 1.4
box I'm building and I'm not terribly satisfied with it (the drivers are
rather immature it seems). However, the last ones I installed were much
better than the first ones, and my guess is the new ones are better still -
I don't use it much as it's not my own box.

Milhouse

> <Snip!>

> > Video cards - a GF2 pro/ultra or Radeon 7500 minimum in my view. GF2
> > MX is OK, but not worth it if you are upgrading from something slower.

> Another budget card that does very well is the Kyro II (eg. Hercules
Prophet
> 4500). The Kyro chip is very CPU dependent, so you shouldn't match it up
with an
> old cpu.

> /Jens

by **Rafe McAuliff** » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:23:59

Actually, the latest tests on Anandtech.com show the Kyro 2 to beat
even a GF2 Pro and GF2 ti. Albeit matched with an Athlon 2000 :) It
seems to really like the CPU horsepower. Not bad for a budget video
card.

Rafe Mc

by **Eldre** » Mon, 28 Jan 2002 05:51:40

>There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the
>back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately
>the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us
>contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl
>performance.

Would that be a good idea to have benchmarks for ALL the popular sims? Would
the info be useful for say, F1-2001 or N4?
I could probably compile results, if there's an interest.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank - under construction...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Ken MacKa** » Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:29:21

Just an update. Installed a GF2 Ultra in the system below and noticed a big
improvement over the V3. On tracks were the resolution would have to be cut back
and a lot of graphic options turned off to keep from dropping below 30, it now
gives 36 fps all the time with everything, except for antialiasing, maxed out. I'd
still suggest upgrading the cpu to a decent level (1G+) and then get the best
graphics card with whatever was left over.

Ken

> Initially ran GPL on a cel400 on a 440bx board with a v3 2000. Tried
> overclocking the V3 but it made no difference to gpl so I left it at the default
> speed. Last year I installed a cel950 in the same system and the improvement in
> gpl was dramatic, could bump the resolution a notch or two and add a few more
> graphic options. With the new cpu I overclocked the V3 again to the speed of
> the 3000 and this time there was some improvement, a few more fps, but nothing
> like the improvement the new cpu gave.

> Just my experience.
> Ken

> > There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the
> > back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately
> > the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us
> > contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl
> > performance.

> > For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a
> > Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or
> > getting an AMD mobo and Duron.

> > The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory
> > bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft
> > Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this
> > bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL?

> > Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do
> > u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to
> > recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or
> > user experiences to support this?

> > There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory
> > bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months
> > would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory
> > bandwidth?

rec.autos.simulators

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent