rec.autos.simulators

live for speed with FF

e

live for speed with FF

by e » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:23:32

I downloaded the demo to try it out.  It seems OK, but I really don't
like the force feedback feel- it's like driving Sports Car GT with the
speed sensitive steering turned off.  It needs some kind of "power
steering" feel, otherwise every little force in the road gets
transmtitted to the wheel and you have to muscle around the wheel too
much.  With SCGT, you get a road feel, but it's heavily reduced by the
speed sensitive steering.
Mike Beaucham

live for speed with FF

by Mike Beaucham » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:20:02

That sounds like an interesting complaint. I wonder, would the cars in LFS
so far even be power steering or no? Maybe they aren't power steering, and
some of the other cars they are going to release are going to be? I know
what you mean though. You do feel EVERYTHING through the steering.

Maybe it's to make up for the lack of other senses, like the
seat-of-the-pants feeling. Maybe post it to the devs, seems like a good
observation.

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com


Damien Smit

live for speed with FF

by Damien Smit » Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:12:38

I love feeling everything on the road.  My LWFF doesn't have the most powerful
FF, so it's certainly not overpowering in LFS.  I guess it's possible that
people who have very powerful FF wheels like the momo might struggle with it,
but frankly, there's nothing to stop you from lowering the overall effects in
the wheels own software.  Using speed sensitive steering seems a very strange
way of curbing road feedback to me.

JTBur

live for speed with FF

by JTBur » Mon, 11 Nov 2002 02:47:53

I like the feel of this sim on my MOMO.  One of the best driving games as
far as FF goes IMO.  The cars really feel heavy, like I am driving a car,
not a pixel.

Todd


GTX_SlotCa

live for speed with FF

by GTX_SlotCa » Mon, 11 Nov 2002 03:38:06

"Damien Smith"  wrote

There you go :-)

You'd be surprised how many people don't realize that "overall device gain",
"spring gain" and "damper gain" are there for a reason and it's OK to use
them. Many games perform better with them turned down to 40 or 50 percent.

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

e

live for speed with FF

by e » Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:19:40


> I love feeling everything on the road.  My LWFF doesn't have the most powerful
> FF, so it's certainly not overpowering in LFS.  I guess it's possible that
> people who have very powerful FF wheels like the momo might struggle with it,
> but frankly, there's nothing to stop you from lowering the overall effects in
> the wheels own software.  Using speed sensitive steering seems a very strange
> way of curbing road feedback to me.

 When was the last car that didn't have power steering?  Even NASCAR's
have power steering.

  I have one of those big Momo's, the new ones.  The force feedback is
great in a rally game, but I don't find it all that great to have to
fight the wheel all the time in road driving games.  Gran Prix Legends
especially can be pretty "ragged" in the force feedback if you don't
have enough damping- it seems like the wheel gets "stuck" alot (BTW, I
just drive the trainers around in that game 'cause I am a wuss..
heheheh).

 I know, probably should have bought a non-FF wheel, right?

Internet Use

live for speed with FF

by Internet Use » Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:37:09


> I downloaded the demo to try it out.  It seems OK, but I really don't
> like the force feedback feel- it's like driving Sports Car GT with the
> speed sensitive steering turned off.  It needs some kind of "power
> steering" feel, otherwise every little force in the road gets
> transmtitted to the wheel and you have to muscle around the wheel too
> much.  With SCGT, you get a road feel, but it's heavily reduced by the
> speed sensitive steering.

I haven't had to muscle the wheel in LFS at all.  I get a lot of
feedback through the wheel, but a feeling that the wheels are attached
to the ground isn't one of them.  A steering wheel should have a natural
tendency to center itself (to an extent) and a fair amount of pressure
to turn the wheel, neither of which do I find in LFS.  I wish there was
a constant force on the wheel that would convince me that the ***
meets the road.  When exactly do you have to 'muscle' the wheel?
e

live for speed with FF

by e » Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:22:33


> I haven't had to muscle the wheel in LFS at all.  I get a lot of
> feedback through the wheel, but a feeling that the wheels are attached
> to the ground isn't one of them.  A steering wheel should have a natural
> tendency to center itself (to an extent) and a fair amount of pressure
> to turn the wheel, neither of which do I find in LFS.  I wish there was
> a constant force on the wheel that would convince me that the ***
> meets the road.  When exactly do you have to 'muscle' the wheel?

  I'm using the new Momo wheel (***, not leather).  It can put out
a quite strong force, I've got it at 100 percent, not 150, though, but
it's still pretty strong.

  Maybe "muscle" isn't the right word- keep in mind I don't really
like tightly gripping the wheel.  It just feel really ragged, not
smooth- sharp transitions from high-grip to low-grip and the wheel has
a sticky, jerking feeling to it.  I had the same problem in GPL until
I turned up the damping in the core.ini (I pretty much suck at that
game, but I digress...).  Power/Speed sensitive steering in Sports Car
GT seems to have smoothed out this effect, I suspect it works by
introducing additional forces into the effects, or possibly filtering
them.  I can feel when the car is about to loose grip, but the force
doesn't jerk the wheel at the same time, it's very subdued.  You can
also feel little bumps in the road and some of the movement- it just
seems more realistic (based on the few  times I have driven real
cars).

  I use a small amount of centering force in LFS, BTW.  It always
seems unnatural to have a wheel with no center-spring.

  It was a toss up for me between Force Feedback or not.  I could have
as easily gone with non-FF, but I wanted to see what it was like.

Krunc

live for speed with FF

by Krunc » Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:00:12

I have a 2 year old Ferrari Force Feedback wheel and the LFS force feedback
is quite simply the best FF I've ever felt in any game. Its smooth, strong
and subtle, with loss of grip perfectly detectable. Its an absolute pleasure
to drive.

I have the in-game force feedback stregth at about 50% and in the Windows
control panel my device gain is at 90% with no centering force. I find that
centering force covers up the FF the more you turn. You shouldn't need any
centering force in LFS as your setup should have enough castor to centre the
wheels anyway (after all that's what causes it in a real car). Its really
only there for non FF games.

Clearly there is major variation between different FF wheels, their drivers
and the systems they are running on (just like with any other PC hardware).
Which means if you get bad FF in a game you can't be sure the game is at
fault whereas if you get fantastic FF you know the game makers got something
right!

Krunch.
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www.krunchspace.com
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Internet Use

live for speed with FF

by Internet Use » Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:58:26


>   Maybe "muscle" isn't the right word- keep in mind I don't really
> like tightly gripping the wheel.  It just feel really ragged, not
> smooth- sharp transitions from high-grip to low-grip and the wheel has
> a sticky, jerking feeling to it.

OK. I can agree with you on that point 100%.  I have the leather MOMO
and it's also 'jerky' and 'sticky' in this game.  I hope they're still
working on the FF.
wil

live for speed with FF

by wil » Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:35:50

I'm in the 'i just love the FFB in LFS completely' camp.
Seriously...LFS IMO has the best FF in any game i know.
Guillemot Fer FFB wheel here

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