>AMD relies on third party companies (Viatech and Ali Magik) for their
>chipsets. Big difference here.
P4 should get more accessible tho as new motherboards and chipsets now
support SDRAM or DDR ram instead of the RDRAM only boards a few months ago..
In the end I dont it matter much if the "sticker" says AMD or Intel...
"upgradeability" and budget will do that job.
ed_
Agree with you Jalo, what is he really asking for (yes, I re-read the
original post)?
-but I didn't know that games where optimized for P4-instructions already...
My guess is these needed instructions are not even in the compilers for a
long time, hence we won't notice anything for a year or so.
--
JoHS, Norway
| I've been a "Celeron guy" for 3 years... however on my last update I
opted
| for an AMD system.
| I would say that a AMD system probably gives you more "bang" for the buck.
| In my case, I could get a new Mobo, CPU, Fans etc., and a 64mb GF2 Pro
card
| for just about the same price I would have paid for the P4 *processor*...
| (not orgetting that I also would have needed to buy a new motherboard and
| expensive RDRAM (I got 384mb) on top of that..)
|
| P4 should get more accessible tho as new motherboards and chipsets now
| support SDRAM or DDR ram instead of the RDRAM only boards a few months
ago..
|
| In the end I dont it matter much if the "sticker" says AMD or Intel...
| "upgradeability" and budget will do that job.
|
| ed_
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| Agree with you Jalo, what is he really asking for (yes, I re-read the
| original post)?
| -but I didn't know that games where optimized for P4-instructions
already...
| My guess is these needed instructions are not even in the compilers for a
| long time, hence we won't notice anything for a year or so.
| --
| JoHS, Norway
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Look at the Intel-weenie post standard FUD-faire.
-Tim
So Intel optimize Q3, then everyone says "wow, it runs games so fast",
but it only happens with one or two games, so it's a bit of a moot
point. AMD did the same thing with Q2 when they released 3DNOW!, to
show the speed improvement and impress people. Fancy marketing tricks.
It'll take a while for any proggies to carry P4 optimisation, but by
the time they do, AMD chips will support it as well, so the P4 will
still be a loser IMO.
Rafe Mc
Rafe Mc
>| Are you saying that the AMD mobos are pricier than the Intel mobos?
>| Probably agree with you if that's what you're saying. But the
>| difference is $50 (Australian) extra for the AMD board, against a
>| saving of $200 for a 1ghz cpu (P3 vs T-bird) so the AMD wins out.
>|
>| But if you were to compare similar performance, not clock speed, you
>| have to go to a 1.4-1.5 ghz P4 to get similar performance. Over here,
>| the cost of a 1.5 ghz P4 is $500 extra, more than double! ($220 vs
>| $720). Agreed, the P4 comes with 128mb RDRAM, but PC133 SDRAM costs
>| only $50 now, so that's not an issue.
>|
>| But back to the question at hand, you won't see much improvement if
>| you've got a P3 1ghz chip. And if you o'clock it a bit, then the
>| upgrade becomes even less important.
>|
>| Wait until the Athlon 4 is out and the price of T-birds comes down, or
>| for the price of P4's to drop (a LONG way!) if you are a big Intel
>| fan.
>| Rafe Mc
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Agreed that there tends to be more trouble with AMD, largely due to
the VIA chipset. AMD are beginning to make their own chipsets now,
hopefully they'll be less dependant on them.
And the reason there's only Intel servers is because AMD only released
their server chipset and CPUs a month or two ago. Intel's had the
market for ages.
Rafe Mc
| When you talk about "popular games" like Q3, etc., basically I think
| Intel has put a bit of money into those games for a specific purpose.
| That is, to show how well a game will run if P4 optimized. Q3 gets
| targeted because EVERYONE compares how their system runs Q3 on the
| internet (not talking us simmers, but review ans o'clocking sites)
|
| So Intel optimize Q3, then everyone says "wow, it runs games so fast",
| but it only happens with one or two games, so it's a bit of a moot
| point. AMD did the same thing with Q2 when they released 3DNOW!, to
| show the speed improvement and impress people. Fancy marketing tricks.
|
| It'll take a while for any proggies to carry P4 optimisation, but by
| the time they do, AMD chips will support it as well, so the P4 will
| still be a loser IMO.
|
| Rafe Mc
|
|
| >> fwiw
| >> Rafe this is just what I did! Have a P3 1ghz_cpu o/c to 1.22 and
| >> w/ my abit SA6R mobo w/512megs of ram w/ GF2GTS'Pro my
| >> little computer smokes for me! <g> Also I just bought the P220f
| >> monitor & this made my puter look & feel almost real! Wow! :-)
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| Good to hear, not much point upgrading with that kind of power.
| Nothing like a fancy monitor to give the full immersion factor. Gotta
| love those 19" jobbies! What's a P220f monitor btw? Flat screen?
|
| Rafe Mc
|
|
|
| >fwiw
| >Rafe this is just what I did! Have a P3 1ghz_cpu o/c to 1.22 and
| >w/ my abit SA6R mobo w/512megs of ram w/ GF2GTS'Pro my
| >little computer smokes for me! <g> Also I just bought the P220f
| >monitor & this made my puter look & feel almost real! Wow! :-)
| >
| >| Are you saying that the AMD mobos are pricier than the Intel mobos?
| >| Probably agree with you if that's what you're saying. But the
| >| difference is $50 (Australian) extra for the AMD board, against a
| >| saving of $200 for a 1ghz cpu (P3 vs T-bird) so the AMD wins out.
| >|
| >| But if you were to compare similar performance, not clock speed, you
| >| have to go to a 1.4-1.5 ghz P4 to get similar performance. Over here,
| >| the cost of a 1.5 ghz P4 is $500 extra, more than double! ($220 vs
| >| $720). Agreed, the P4 comes with 128mb RDRAM, but PC133 SDRAM costs
| >| only $50 now, so that's not an issue.
| >|
| >| But back to the question at hand, you won't see much improvement if
| >| you've got a P3 1ghz chip. And if you o'clock it a bit, then the
| >| upgrade becomes even less important.
| >|
| >| Wait until the Athlon 4 is out and the price of T-birds comes down, or
| >| for the price of P4's to drop (a LONG way!) if you are a big Intel
| >| fan.
| >| Rafe Mc
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Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
| Out of curiousity, how much WAS that? I was considering buying a 21"
screen(I
| only have a 17" now). I had ordered one from UBid, but it got lost in
| transit... :(
|
| Eldred
| >The P220f is the Professional Series 22" CRT monitor by ViewSonic
| >Rafe. I was a NEC dude for years but when I got my 19" PS790 I've never
| >found any other name brand that comes close for the money to
| >the ViewSonic..imho I do alot of computer graphics & photography
| >so the 'huge' monitor really helps in detailing and this monitor can be
| >set to match any printer spot-on! The *** quality is just amazing!
| >I cant say enough about VeiwSonic but I'm bias now..<g>
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But
it's been reliable and it runs almost every game without problem.
--
Tim A. Deatherage
www.timdeatheragecpa.com
When I was buying my new system around the turn of the year, I looked
at the options available then purely in terms of performance. It
seemed that the T.bird was running the top Intel CPUs pretty close in
terms of aggregate benchmarks, but was a clear winner (20-30% ahead)
in terms of floating point operations. Since I was buying the system
primarily for audio processing, which relies a lot on that aspect of
performance, it was a no-brainer to choose AMD (1.2GHz T.bird being
the best on offer at the time).
Sims would also benefit from good floating point performance, so that
might be something worth thinking about. I just had a quick look to
see if I could find some of the links that I gathered my information
from, but I didn't get that far. If it really matters to you to get to
the bottom of this (i.e., if you're about to buy a new system or
upgrade) then I suggest you get out there and track down some
comparative benchmarks, as Intel may have caught up a bit by now
anyways.
Setting the system up took some effort, but it was easier than the
last Intel-based system I built. That system used an Intel branded
mobo, which is something that I will never bother with again. (That
was way back in the P133 days though.) Anyway, in short, here is at
least one "Intel man" who was happily converted to the AMD camp and
remains very pleased with the price/performance ratio six months down
the road.
-= mike =-