rec.autos.simulators

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

Graeme Nas

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Graeme Nas » Sat, 06 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Hey all,

Just comparing two systems I've seen advertised..... Cold you tell me
which one you think is better? They're basically the same price.

SYSTEM 1
--------
P2-450
128mb pc100 RAM
16mb Voodoo Banshee + 12mb Voodoo II
8.4gb HD

SYSTEM 2
--------
P3-450
128mb pc100 RAM
16mb Nvidia Riva TNT card
10.2gb hard drive

I'm looking for best GPL performance mainly but also best general
performance is important too :-)

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash


http://www.racesimcentral.net/
ICQ# 11257824

1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Wosc

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Wosc » Sat, 06 Mar 1999 04:00:00

The banshee computer will work better due to specific use of 3dfx.  With the
openGL patch I hear it is still pretty slow compared to 3dfx.

>Hey all,

>Just comparing two systems I've seen advertised..... Cold you tell me
>which one you think is better? They're basically the same price.

>SYSTEM 1
>--------
>P2-450
>128mb pc100 RAM
>16mb Voodoo Banshee + 12mb Voodoo II
>8.4gb HD

>SYSTEM 2
>--------
>P3-450
>128mb pc100 RAM
>16mb Nvidia Riva TNT card
>10.2gb hard drive

>I'm looking for best GPL performance mainly but also best general
>performance is important too :-)

>--
>Cheers!
>Graeme Nash


>http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
>ICQ# 11257824

>1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Bria

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Bria » Sat, 06 Mar 1999 04:00:00

If you can wait a month, the new STB Voodoo3 video card will be available.
Essentially, it's a 2D/3D card that has the 3D performance of 2 12MB
Voodoo2s running in SLI (without using up 2 extra PCI slots).

Or, if the GPL 1.1 patch has a fix for the OpenGL performance impact of the
mirrors, then the Riva TNT would be a good choice as well.  To me, GPL looks
better on my TNT than my Voodoo2 - however, even with refreshing the mirrors
only every 8 frames, the framerate in the in***pit view is still 5-8 fps
slower than the Voodoo2.  There should also be new TNT2-based cards coming
soon as well (April?).

BTW, the P3-450 performs the same as a P2-450, except it has support for for
70 new instructions called SSE.  Although there can be significant
performance gains, it is likely that any games will use these instructions
until the end of 99.  See
http://www.racesimcentral.net/; The Celeron 433 is
scheduled to be released March 15 - it should perform almost as well as
P2/3-450, but should be a bit cheaper.

Brian


>Hey all,

>Just comparing two systems I've seen advertised..... Cold you tell me
>which one you think is better? They're basically the same price.

>SYSTEM 1
>--------
>P2-450
>128mb pc100 RAM
>16mb Voodoo Banshee + 12mb Voodoo II
>8.4gb HD

>SYSTEM 2
>--------
>P3-450
>128mb pc100 RAM
>16mb Nvidia Riva TNT card
>10.2gb hard drive

Gary Kuche

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Gary Kuche » Sat, 06 Mar 1999 04:00:00

why not go for an AMD cpu?....just as good and way way cheaper in
price...and you get just as good or if not better performance for your
computer dollar.I'm using an AMD-K62-300 and i get 36 fps's in GPL and
it's solid.and what i have read,the AMD 450 runs the software just as
good if not better in some instances.I dont think I will ever consider an
Intel run system again as long as they continue to change thier
technology every 2 years to force us computer public users to follow like
sheep.Ipersonally wouldnt like to have an ID code on my cpu to identify
myself on the net as the P-III's are purported to have.Not with all the
hackers out there just waiting to grip thier slimy grubby hands on this
stuff.

> Hey all,

> Just comparing two systems I've seen advertised..... Cold you tell me
> which one you think is better? They're basically the same price.

> SYSTEM 1
> --------
> P2-450
> 128mb pc100 RAM
> 16mb Voodoo Banshee + 12mb Voodoo II
> 8.4gb HD

> SYSTEM 2
> --------
> P3-450
> 128mb pc100 RAM
> 16mb Nvidia Riva TNT card
> 10.2gb hard drive

> I'm looking for best GPL performance mainly but also best general
> performance is important too :-)

> --
> Cheers!
> Graeme Nash


> http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
> ICQ# 11257824

> 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

Phil Abe

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Phil Abe » Sun, 07 Mar 1999 04:00:00


>Just comparing two systems I've seen advertised..... Cold you tell me
>which one you think is better? They're basically the same price.

Both rigs look awesome, but i'd throw an 8mb thriller in system 2 if it was
up to me.....Either way, you'd have no excuses for not posting a sub 1:28
monza ferrari lap before long ! ;-)
Phil
K.S. Br?nnic

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by K.S. Br?nnic » Sun, 07 Mar 1999 04:00:00


>Hey all,

>Just comparing two systems I've seen advertised..... Cold you tell me
>which one you think is better? They're basically the same price.

>SYSTEM 1
>--------
>P2-450
>128mb pc100 RAM
>16mb Voodoo Banshee + 12mb Voodoo II
>8.4gb HD

A friend of mine has a Celeron 464A and a EON Banshee (AGP-SGRAM), and 128
mb ram.

I also have a Celeron 300A running at 464 mhz, 128 mb ram, but I have CL 12
mb V2 SLI.

The Banshee is actually better for GPL than my SLI rig altough my SLI rig is
more than twice as fast in for instance Quake2.

The Banshee runs GPL at a rock steady 36 fps in 1024x768, SLI also does
this, but with worse image quality.

Another guy here stated you should get a Thriller 8 mb. Well- the Banshee is
quite a bit faster in 1024x768 than the Thriller, and at this resolution GPL
ROCKS! ;-))

Regards K.S. Br?nnick

Ps. A TNT is still not optimal for GPL

Jack Ramb

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Jack Ramb » Sun, 07 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Some weeks back, I posted the results of some GPL performance testing I did
using both a Banshee and a Thriller 8MB. In my PII-450/128MB system, the
Banshee substantially outperformed the Rendition card. Based on the these
tests, as well as the greater compatibility of the 3Dfx chip, I'm not at all
hesitant in recommending a Banshee for a high end system.

If anyone is interested and unable to find the post, I'll be happy to send a
copy.

Jack Ramb

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Jack Ramb » Sun, 07 Mar 1999 04:00:00

And, of course, the next post reminds me that the 2D/3D Voodoo3 will of
course, in my opinion, be the board to have if waiting a month is an option.
Wosc

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Wosc » Sun, 07 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Now you say after the start you get solid 36FPS, now is this when your still
sitting there or driving in the pack?  It matters how good of a driver at
how many FPS, a good driver who is racing may get less FPS than the guy that
falls behind.

Jesse



>>why not go for an AMD cpu?....just as good and way way cheaper in
>>price...and you get just as good or if not better performance for your
>>computer dollar.I'm using an AMD-K62-300 and i get 36 fps's in GPL and
>>it's solid.and what i have read,the AMD 450 runs the software just as
>>good if not better in some instances.I dont think I will ever consider an
>>Intel run system again as long as they continue to change thier
>>technology every 2 years to force us computer public users to follow like
>>sheep.Ipersonally wouldnt like to have an ID code on my cpu to identify
>>myself on the net as the P-III's are purported to have.Not with all the
>>hackers out there just waiting to grip thier slimy grubby hands on this
>>stuff.

>Sure, you get 36 fps in training. How about with 19 AI opponents? With a V2
>and low detail settings at 800x600 I bet you get fps between 16 and 25 fps
>with 19 AI opponents in a race. Once you drop below 36 fps the physics
>doesn't behave
>as it should.

>A comparison between a K6-2 and a Celeron300A done here a while ago showed
>the C300a to be almost twice as fast pr. mhz.

>Why don't you duplicate this (maxed out graphics for easy duplication):

>Track: Monaco
>AI: 19
>Sounds: 5
>Detail bias: full right (max)
>All graphics options ON (Except only cars in mirrors)
>All effects on
>Resolution 800x600


>12mb I got the following framerates:
>-At the start at the back of the grid: 18.5 fps.
>-Just after start : 16.7 fps
>-10 sec. after start: Steady 36 fps.

>My guess is a AMD K6-2 300 with a V2 12 mb will get about 9 fps at the
>start. Be my guest and prove me wrong. The K6-2 is not a good CPU for GPL.

>Regards K.S. Br?nnick

K.S. Br?nnic

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by K.S. Br?nnic » Mon, 08 Mar 1999 04:00:00


>why not go for an AMD cpu?....just as good and way way cheaper in
>price...and you get just as good or if not better performance for your
>computer dollar.I'm using an AMD-K62-300 and i get 36 fps's in GPL and
>it's solid.and what i have read,the AMD 450 runs the software just as
>good if not better in some instances.I dont think I will ever consider an
>Intel run system again as long as they continue to change thier
>technology every 2 years to force us computer public users to follow like
>sheep.Ipersonally wouldnt like to have an ID code on my cpu to identify
>myself on the net as the P-III's are purported to have.Not with all the
>hackers out there just waiting to grip thier slimy grubby hands on this
>stuff.

Sure, you get 36 fps in training. How about with 19 AI opponents? With a V2
and low detail settings at 800x600 I bet you get fps between 16 and 25 fps
with 19 AI opponents in a race. Once you drop below 36 fps the physics
doesn't behave
as it should.

A comparison between a K6-2 and a Celeron300A done here a while ago showed
the C300a to be almost twice as fast pr. mhz.

Why don't you duplicate this (maxed out graphics for easy duplication):

Track: Monaco
AI: 19
Sounds: 5
Detail bias: full right (max)
All graphics options ON (Except only cars in mirrors)
All effects on
Resolution 800x600


12mb I got the following framerates:
-At the start at the back of the grid: 18.5 fps.
-Just after start : 16.7 fps
-10 sec. after start: Steady 36 fps.

My guess is a AMD K6-2 300 with a V2 12 mb will get about 9 fps at the
start. Be my guest and prove me wrong. The K6-2 is not a good CPU for GPL.

Regards K.S. Br?nnick

K.S. Br?nnic

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by K.S. Br?nnic » Mon, 08 Mar 1999 04:00:00


>Now you say after the start you get solid 36FPS, now is this when your
still
>sitting there or driving in the pack?  It matters how good of a driver at
>how many FPS, a good driver who is racing may get less FPS than the guy
that
>falls behind.

I get 36 fps when the field spreads out just a little bit. I was last on
this occation because I was busy checking the framerate ;-).

I had a PPRO200 before, and everything I have read indicates that is was
about as good as a K2-2 300 in GPL, which clearly was not good enough as I
had to run with no more than 11 AI and at the start the fps dropped to about
10.

K.S. Br?nnick

Paul Jone

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Paul Jone » Tue, 09 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Wait a little bit longer and you can get the TNT2 which will do SLI. Might no be
a great help for GPL.
WRT your test between Banshee and Thriller, bear in mind that Banshee has much
less graphics performance than dual V2 even in GPL and that V2 performs much
better on high spec machines.
Cheers,
Paul
Jack Ramb

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Jack Ramb » Tue, 09 Mar 1999 04:00:00

For games that don't require the second MTU (like GPL), 3Dfx, itself, gives
Banshee the edge over a single Voodoo2. I think it's a mistake for any GPL
enthusiast to consider dual Voodoo2s in a higher spec system at a net
incremental cost (relative to single Banshee) of roughly US$200 (last time I
checked) + 2 PCI slots + (perhaps) the cost of a reasonable 2D board if the
buyer is building from scratch, when the performance gain is only marginal.

GPLers should remember that if they plan to maintain both a local network
connection and plan to have either ADSL or a cable connection, PCI slot
availability may become an issue in many systems.

But of course, the Voodoo2 v. Banshee debate is made moot by the Voodoo3! I
can't wait!

Jack Rambo

K.S. Br?nnic

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by K.S. Br?nnic » Tue, 09 Mar 1999 04:00:00


>well i dont know where you get your information from pal..but i get a SOLID
36
>fps on my gpl..19 cars...16 sounds.....and every damn graphic on you can
>name.I'm using a AGP Banshee-16 mb video card and I wouldnt trade my AMD
cpu
>for anything INTEL would give me for free .AND by the way....with what you
paid
>for your INTEL....the difference in price i paid for mine....that just
bought
>me more goodies like software and peripherals.you can keep your INTEL and
watch
>your FPS rate flutter while i look at a solid screen and enjoy computing
the
>way it should be enjoyed.

My Celeron 300A CPU cost me about 90$.

So you say you get 36 fps at the grid starting last at 800x600 with 19 AI
drivers at Monaco? I don't think thats true. Other K6-2 owners please report
results. I think you'll get about 9 fps.

You have not duplicated my test. Do so before posting please.

I know this based on reports from other K6-2 owners. For instance (Look at
the last post, 6.5 fps K6-2 300!):

http://x2.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=435884918&CONTEXT=920921146.1
007550533&hitnum=11


Date:   1998/12/20
Forum:   rec.autos.simulators

Running on a Tyan 1590S w/K6-2 350 and a Voodoo Banshee.Runs very well.
It slows down a bit at race starts with too many cars.
Definitely go with the fastest processor you can afford.
PII's will be better, but they do cost more.
A Celeron 300A and an Abit BH6 are the way to go for price/performance,
IF you want to fool around with an overclocked system.  Not for the weak
hearted in my opinion, but bang for the buck is tremendous.

Re: GPL/AMD K6-2??????

Date:   1998/12/25
Forum:   rec.autos.simulators

Ray,    I just upgraded to a AMD K6-2/350 and a new motherboard with 100
front
side bus with 64 mb of SDRAM,just so I could "play" gpl and be ready for N3
(N2000).  I run a Diamond Monster Voodoo 1 graphics 3dfx accelerator card.
I was going to upgrade to a Voodoo 11,but there have been so many posts
reguarding problems with the V2,that I opted to stay with my old card for
now. I get 30-36 fps with all graphics on except just cars/track in the
mirrors in practice. In a race I run full 19 car fields. The fps at the
start really varies according to where I qualified,but even defaulting to
the rear,I get only 6-8 fps,but once the race starts it quickly increases in
to the low 20s fps. Decreasing the number of cars dramatically increases my
frame rate. But I bought gpl to race against a full field.

Re: K6-2 300 + GPL = 6.45 fps ( with Voodoo2 )

Date:   1998/11/15
Forum:   rec.autos.simulators

I have a K6-2/300 & a V2 and I too get pretty crappy framerates from
this game.  Even with max detail there still doesn't appear that much
going on on-screen to explain this lack of performance.  Other
graphically superior games simply runs rings around this stupid game.

K6-2 300 + GPL = 6.45 fps ( with Voodoo2 )

Date:   1998/11/14
Forum:   rec.autos.simulators

OK, I saw post like "my K6-2 rocks in GPL" and I thought there is something
wrong with my system. I posted an article here in R.A.S. that GPL is
unplayable on K6 and somebody said that there is something wrong with my
system. So let me ask you again how much fps do you AMD owners get at
Monaco, 19 opponents, all graphic details to the max. ( and I mean ALL..
mirrors, detail bias all the way to the right... ), 800x600, 5 sounds,
analog controller, starting at the back of the field. I have Voodoo2 8 MB. I
know you will say that I must be crazy for having all graphics maxed out but
that is just easier to describe than " I have textures on cars but not on
fences, etc. ".
I would really like you guys to post your frame rates so I can decide on
what to do: stick to Super 7 format with AMD chips ( waiting for that K6-3
500 ;-) or go with Slot 1 w. Celeron300A.
In the mean time I will just practise, nothing wrong with frame rate in free
training!!

Borut

Bria

Which of these systems is better for GPL?

by Bria » Tue, 09 Mar 1999 04:00:00

I'm also really curious to see if there's a framerate increase in GPL with
the Voodoo3 in my PII 450.  Currently, I don't have room for a second
Voodoo2 since I've used up all my PCI slots with 1 Voodoo2, 2 Ethernet NICs
(1 to cable modem and 1 to other PC), and a sound card.

However, I'd hate to give up the AGP TNT - does anyone know if the 1.1 patch
for GPL has better framerates (in-car view) with OpenGL?  Randy?

Brian


>GPLers should remember that if they plan to maintain both a local network
>connection and plan to have either ADSL or a cable connection, PCI slot
>availability may become an issue in many systems.

>But of course, the Voodoo2 v. Banshee debate is made moot by the Voodoo3! I
>can't wait!


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