rec.autos.simulators

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

SBeshe

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by SBeshe » Fri, 27 Jun 1997 04:00:00

r.a.s pardon these off topic posts, please.

If not for RJR you would not have Nascar1 and Nascar2 today.
They are better corporate citizens than many people are aware of.

The only thing they are guilty of is protecting their livelyhood.
How do you explain someone who has smoked for 50 years and

is healthier than many others who don't smoke that are 30 years younger?

There are many other factors involved which determine a person's
succeptability

to cancer, emphysema, heart problems.

There is a certain amount of risk involved in a lot of products.

Should these other manufacturers recieve the same treatment as the tobacco
industry?   How do you say vendetta?

S

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by S » Fri, 27 Jun 1997 04:00:00



I said before and I'll say again, it's not about cancer, emphysema, heart
problems. It's about POWER, just one more step for our government to run
our lives..........PERIOD...............

SG

Key Lar

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by Key Lar » Fri, 27 Jun 1997 04:00:00



I have _no problem_ with the control of cigarettes/nicotine. I
actually am in favor of cracking down on sales to minors. I even
believe that cigarettes/nicotine will become a "controlled substance"
in my lifetime.

What bothers me is all of those who seem to believe that removing
tobacco related sponsorship of sporting events will magically stop a
non-smoker from smoking their first cigarette.

There have been several attempts in the US to eliminate (insert trendy
vice here) in the past, and my point is simply that government
intervention in this manner will prove more costly than effective.

I also wanted to remind those who think they have never received any
benefit from those dirty, *** Tobacco Companies of some benefit they
may have overlooked.

Perhaps I should also invite anyone with an IRA, 401(k), or pension
that they quite probably are about 10-20% invested in RJR and Phillip
Morris. One of the main motivations behind the current "agreement"
being negotiated is a release from future liability claims in exchange
for the dollars being tendered to the government for "anti-smoking
education".

What this _really_ comes down to is the purchase of an Insurance
Policy, with RJR and PM believing that by "investing" in a government
sponsored program (that may be much less effective in practice than on
paper) they can reduce long-term risk. When Wall Street has determined
that RJR and PM have effectively eliminated the risk of future
liability claims, watch their Price-to-Earnings ratios rise from their
current 14 times Earnings multiples to something possibly approaching
Coca-Colas 44 time Earnings. (Please don't flame me if the multiples
are a point or two off...I didn't look it up in the Journal, but I
believe I should be close enough for the purpose of illustrating the
point).

Also, look at all of that money they will no longer be pouring into
Advertising and Sponsorships.

I just wish I had a few extra thou to invest in those stocks...

Key Largo
Nascar2 Rookie

(who _still_ refuses to send his money to any evangelist who can
afford to buy time on a Television station, ESPECIALLY those who can
afford to buy the entire Television station).

Jim Sokolo

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by Jim Sokolo » Sat, 28 Jun 1997 04:00:00

On Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:06:20 -0400, Tom & Deb Sosnowski



>> I understand your point, and I'm about as anti-smoking as a sensible
>> person can be. However, I don't mind at all seeing the Smokin' Joes
>> Camel-Powered and the Skoal car chasing after the millions of dollars
>> that RJR puts up every year for Winston Cup Racing. The government
>> jamming its nose into motorsports advertising of a legal product seems
>> ridiculous. If cigarettes are so damn bad, make them illegal. (And
>> then, I'd stand up for banning the ads...)
>And there are those who are trying to legalize narcotics. Make
>cigarettes illegal, and get rid of the Smokin' Joes Camel car. Make dope
>legal, and have the Columbian Gold car. Or the High on *** car. Or
>the Ounce of Crack car. Or....

>Does this make any sense to you?

Sure, if those were legal products, and the terms of their
legalization permitted advertising, then those sponsors should be
permitted to run those cars. Seeing a High on *** car lapping at
Daytona won't make me try *** if I didn't want to try it otherwise,
anymore than watching a Cup race makes me go out and buy a carton of
Camel cigarettes.

These claims seem to fall into the making everyone a victim category.
Oh, it's not Johnny's fault that he smokes, it was the bad man driving
the #23 Cup car that MADE him smoke. Bullshit! Johnny picks up the
smoking habit, it's predominately HIS OWN DAMN FAULT.

---Jim

Jim Sokolo

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by Jim Sokolo » Sat, 28 Jun 1997 04:00:00




>>Largely thanks to California (which prohibits in-state sales of computer
>>game products which include *** and tobacco), Papyrus games do not
>>include *** or tobacco sponsors. Thus, I don't think NROS will be
>>affected at all.
>Does this mean that people in California are not allowed to play
>"Redneck Rampage"?  Damn....

The demo I saw didn't include specific brands of ***, thus I don't
think *** "sponsorship" is involved.

---Jim

Frank Perreau

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by Frank Perreau » Sun, 29 Jun 1997 04:00:00

[big snip]

This argument is a big crock of crap.  So during all the years that the
cigarette companies were saying that their products weren't harmful, what was
the FDA doing?  (an organization that I pay taxes for to protect my health)
They were doing their own studies and found out that smoking was bad for you but
did nothing to get butts and nicotine regulated.  The FDA had the same info as
the cigarette companies and all they had to do was get off their butts and get
it done.

Coca-Cola once said that cola syrup and *** was good for you and the FDA got
it together and banned *** regardless of what Coke thought.  The way that I
see it is the cigarette companies lied but the government didn't do anything to
get off of their dead asses to get the product or nicotine regulated.  If the
FDA couldn't to get it to happen because of politics, then apparently the US
people and their representatives felt that they could live with the
consequences.  

Now, let's put it this way.  The hazards of smoking have been known and the
scientific data in the government hands for over 30 years.  In fact, I remember
seeing film strip projector films in school in the 60's describing the hazards
of smoking.  Remember the pictures of black lungs that they used to show?   If
everyone thought they were so damn hazardous or health care costs too high, they
would have demanded that they be banned immediately in the 60's when the first
real data was being produced by the government.

So to say that the cigarette companies are 100% liable is crap.  It has been and
still is, a legal product regardless of the lie by the companies.  It's my
opinion that us taxpayers should hammering the FDA for not doing their job since
EVERY American taxpayer pays those morons salaries.

To further extend the argument, I feel that the federal and state governments
are a bunch of hypocrites.  I mean, what the hell has all the tax money
collected on cigarettes for the last 80 years been used for?  If the governments
were so damned concerned for smokers health then why weren't they using THAT
money to pay for the health care bills of dying smokers and fund anti-smoking
campaigns instead of building bridges and highways with it?  But let's see...

The cigarette tax money went into the General Fund which then went into Social
Security.  From there it paid for the medical services of smokers.  Hmm, this
means that it didn't cost the government squat out of their own pockets for
smokers health care costs.  That means that all this money that the government
is talking about as being owed to them is crap.  

And remember, smokers die younger, therefore they pay into Social Security
during their working years but usually never get to collect retirement (because
they're dead).  This means that the government is making even more money off of
the smoker.  Hmm, the way I see it all the non-smokers should be thanking the
smokers for all the extra money they contribute.  Hell, they pay more taxes than
a non-smoker, they pay Social Security but never collect it and they keep
thousands employed which results in a vibrant economy in the South  It also
indirectly keeps health care people employed, if you get my drift.

The bottom line is that both the State and Federal governments are just using
this as an excuse to get money back in their budgets that have been seriously
wacked with balanced budget amendments and the like.  It's a great way to get
easy money in the coffers.  I guess that means that the politicians will  have
to do less begging with foreign dignitaries in order to obtain campaign
contributions.  Cigarettes have helped the American economy more than hurted it
regardless of what all the government officials are saying.  Be it jobs,
investments (most states invest in cigarette companies) or people dying young,
the government has benefitted greatly from butts.

As to whether the government can do an outright ban on advertising for a legal
product, I have serious doubts.  I think that would be worthy of a First
Amendment fight in the Supreme Court.  Then again, that's an argument for
another message...

And you may ask whether I'm a smoker or not.  No, but I used to be.

--- Frank ---


Redwing0

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by Redwing0 » Mon, 30 Jun 1997 04:00:00

I agree whole-heartedly with the observation that thr tobacco industry has
perpetuated an ***ive drug on the population for 30 years. Further
observations:
isn't it ironic that the conservatives who have the tobacco industry in
their constituancy are howling ***y *** about government infringement
on the
right to smoke when these same conservatives would love to pass laws
censoring
what movies I can see; what I can access on the internet; what liturature
I can
read; whether a woman has the right to an ***; and whether terminally
ill people have the right to die with some dignity? By the way, some of
the zeal that
conservatives use to protect the rights of the unborn might be better
applied to
keeping children and young ***s from starting the use of a deadly
***ive
drug like nicotine. Maybe an equal emphasis should be placed upon
preserving lives that are not yet ruined by using this dangerous drug.

TrenT Castanavara

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by TrenT Castanavara » Wed, 02 Jul 1997 04:00:00

AMen brother!

TrenT

--
Driver of the #15 Cincinnati Bengals Pontiac
N2STRS
NSRA-S Division
CatchMeIfU.........................Can

TrenT Castanavara

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by TrenT Castanavara » Wed, 02 Jul 1997 04:00:00


> I wonder what killed Mickey Mantle?

His own stupidity for smoking in the first place?

Just my opinion...*smirk*

TrenT

--
Driver of the #15 Cincinnati Bengals Pontiac
N2STRS
NSRA-S Division
CatchMeIfU.........................Can

TrenT Castanavara

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by TrenT Castanavara » Wed, 02 Jul 1997 04:00:00

Very Well Stated.

TrenT

--
Driver of the #15 Cincinnati Bengals Pontiac
N2STRS
NSRA-S Division
CatchMeIfU.........................Can

TrenT Castanavara

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by TrenT Castanavara » Wed, 02 Jul 1997 04:00:00


> > > >Racing will survive this very well.  We don't need RJR.

> HMMMM.......How about "The Microsoft Cup" ? :-)

Bill gates is too stupid and FAR too cheap to flip the bill like RJR.
Keep Racing's roots alive, DaMn The MAn!! Save The Winston!!!!!

TrenT

--
Driver of the #15 Cincinnati Bengals Pontiac
N2STRS
NSRA-S Division
CatchMeIfU.........................Can

Glenn Brow

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by Glenn Brow » Wed, 02 Jul 1997 04:00:00


> I wonder what killed Mickey Mantle?

        Mickey Mantle died as a result on self abuse. Drank enough hard booze
to kill an elephant. Smoked a carton of cigs every other day. *** as a
chaser.
        Thats what killed Mickey Mantle.
--
\ooo/><>\ooo/><>\ooo/><>\ooo/><>\ooo/
Glenn Brown Kihei, Maui, Hawaii

*** Services
        http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Maui Sunshine Raceing
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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SBeshe

Winston RJR vs. Govermental Stooges

by SBeshe » Thu, 03 Jul 1997 04:00:00

Now that we've brought that to light, how much regulation is on ***?

Should Budweiser be allowed to advertise at Nascar events, etc?


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