Look at the new Mustang. You can barely buy one, and if you want a GT, good
luck. They are as hard to find as XBox 360's.
In short, retro is where it's at. Those that are doing it are selling
everything they can build.
It's pretty clear that people are tired of round, oval or otherwise circular
styling and throw-backs to the day are what's 'in' right now.
-Larry
The point here is Retro styling with Modern Mechanicals.
You are completely right about one thing. The original Muscle-Car era was
about straight-line performance. Turning required careful planning and a
flight plan.
This new stuff gets rid of that problem.
I'm sure it doesn't handle like the Elise (from what I've heard, not much
does). But that's not the point here. It's not meant to be compared to
that car.
-Larry
> What is it with cars these days getting so porky? Even a freaking GTI
> weighs well over 3000lbs.
>> Only one problem. I need two of those.
>> One for each foot.
>> Besides, nothing beats good old fashioned Detroit Iron/Torque.
>> -Larry
>>> Bah, another big and clunky american car. This is true beauty
>>> http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=10861...
>>> :-)
>>> --
>>> David G Fisher
I've driven trucks all my life so I'm used to them.
Bigger Iron does win sometimes win though.
We had an extremely sad incident here in the DC area about 6 months ago
where a very well liked radio personalities wife was killed in a head-on
collision. She was driving a new Lexus SC430. The other was an Explorer.
He walked away, she didn't stand a chance.
The SC430 is some pretty big iron in it's own right.
Man I hate stuff like that. One of the reasons I gave up Auto Mechanics in
1979 was I didn't want to drive tow trucks any more. I had seen enough,
including the blow'd-up Pinto thing.
I am sometimes grateful that I can't even possibly fit inside anything
smaller than a Taurus or Explorer.
-Larry
>> That's American logic for you....no wonder they all drive SUVs in the
>> cities.
> Last I heard the "an SUV is safer in case of an accident" claim is wrong
> because of the relatively high rollover risk these cars suffer from.
> Far too many people consider their car an artificial *** extension
> IMHO anyway.
> Cheers, uwe
> --
> GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
hell 90% of accidents are rear enders or left turns in front of others I
"think". last week a gal flying down the highway, just slammed on her
brakes to make a last minute left turn, got ran over. She had no more idea
what the F was around her than the man on the moon. But unlike the gal 2
weeks before she and the 6 passeengers lived to whine to everyone that the
trucker was at fault. Last time that scenario it was a tiny minivan,
everyone died.
I'll take that SUV, just in case my honey forgets to shut up and drive,
because I wanna think safety...
Another thing that f#cks with my brain is, these soccer-mom types, you know-
in the big urban areas... Got the kids helmet gloves knee pads, elbow pads,
***pads before the kids can even think about the riding of a bicycyle or
skateboard (THem are strictlyoff limits without proper safety gear) But
just 2 minutes ago, while headed home from the Friggin soccer game, they
all were buckled in, traveling 80mph less than 4ft from the next *** in
front of them, on the 6 lane expressway.... and dont even think about the
Danger they were exposing everyone to, for what, 2.4 minutes cut off the 20
minute drive? Get real, once again Cars dont Kill People stupid people kill
people with cars...
Steve Blankenship enlightened us with:
>> That's American logic for you....no wonder they all drive SUVs in the
>> cities.
> No, actually we don't. ;-)
> Yeah, the car as battering ram is indeed one approach to safety, and
> size = safety is an easy concept for car shoppers to grab onto and
> salesmen to push. But stats I've seen suggest SUV's aren't really
> safer than cars as far as prevention of injury. And of course
> passive safety isn't the only kind; the land yachts need it since
> they can't maneuver around accidents, besides being intended for
> people who are not particularly skilled at, or interested in,
> driving. Fair enough, but I'll take my chances in the vehicle that
> delivers useable, efficient performance every day over the one that
> gives me something I haven't needed in several decades of driving.
> Come to think of it, that FZR I used to sport around on probably
> wasn't so safe either; how did I ever survive?
> As for beating an Elise or similar car down a straightaway with a
> musclecar, no argument if it's long enough, straight enough and flat
> enough. But I generally avoid roads like that except as basic
> transport routes to work or such. Any road with enough character to
> turn onto for entertainment's sake looks very different. And on one
> of those, the musclecar finds itself in an argument with the laws of
> physics. One that can be won with brute force and/or cubic dollars,
> but that really shouldn't be needed.
> Colin Chapman was right, you know...
That's why I drive a Caterham (Lotus) 7 every day :)))
That's why I drive a Caterham (Lotus) 7 every day :))) What's the point in
driving fast in a straight line?
I rely on its nimbleness to avoid accidents and that's worked apart from the
2 ton heap of s***iron Jeep that drove over my rear wheel when its driver
couldn't be bothered with the effort of keeping it in its lane round the
roundabout...
That's why I drive a Caterham (Lotus) 7 every day :))) What's the point in
driving fast in a straight line?
I rely on its nimbleness to avoid accidents and that's worked apart from the
2 ton heap of s***iron Jeep that drove over my rear wheel when its driver
couldn't be bothered with the effort of keeping it in its lane round the
roundabout...
There is NOTHING a person does on the road that infuriates me more than a
tail-gater. Absolutely moronic driving. I've gotten out of the car at lights
and given people hell for riding my a**. So tempted to just slam the brakes
sometimes, especially when the idiot is on the cell phone.
--
David G Fisher
***y computers!
Maybe it's not the Computer but yer brainpan all
shook up from driving a leetle ***y tiny car with a
motuhcykle engine init.
I am torn on this one. I LIKE smaller more manuerable cars,
(think rallye types..Mitsubishi Evo or WRXsti. BUt I also fondly
remember the age of Stang's and Cudas and HAS ANYONE SEEN CHEVY'S
ME TOO attempt to steal the Challenger's thunder by releasing some
mockups<sic sick lol>of a new/old Camaro? Shameful. Here Dodge is
already riding on the coattails of the Ford Mustang and CHevy has to
be an attention ***. lol.!!!
Anyhow, I'd love a nice little car. But I'd sure have fun for a
few days in this hugely oversized Challenger. At least it LOOKS like
a Challenger, not like the lump of clay they call a CHarger.
(Where are Bob Lutz's old Chrysler Co, Designers? Answer: drawing ME TOO
chevy's for GM sigh.....)
dave henrie
B) Yeah, it's an apples vs. oranges comparison, but people will argue all
day long about which is better. Let's just say I had a really bad apple
back in the day!
C) No doubt the new Dodge will be less of a POS than the original; it would
have to be. But it's still two tons of iron you have to get to stop, go and
change direction. The laws of physics don't care about capturing their lost
youth... ;-)
> The point here is Retro styling with Modern Mechanicals.
> You are completely right about one thing. The original Muscle-Car era was
> about straight-line performance. Turning required careful planning and a
> flight plan.
> This new stuff gets rid of that problem.
> I'm sure it doesn't handle like the Elise (from what I've heard, not much
> does). But that's not the point here. It's not meant to be compared to
> that car.
> -Larry
>> Yeah? Try keeping up with an Elise in that two ton (yes, two ton) P.O.S.
>> And I feel fully comfortable saying that, having once owned one of the
>> original versions that bloated retromobile is styled to look like. Best
>> thing that ever happened to it was a buddy of mine wrapping it around a
>> tree so I could buy something that didn't suck with the insurance
>> settlement. He never quite got why I was so understanding about the
>> whole thing... ;-)
>> What is it with cars these days getting so porky? Even a freaking GTI
>> weighs well over 3000lbs.
>>> Only one problem. I need two of those.
>>> One for each foot.
>>> Besides, nothing beats good old fashioned Detroit Iron/Torque.
>>> -Larry
>>>> Bah, another big and clunky american car. This is true beauty
>>>> http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=10861...
>>>> :-)
>>>> --
>>>> David G Fisher
At 3800+ lbs, yeah, it's pretty hefty. But that also goes to show that
weight in and of itself does mean a car's "safe." Personally, I can live
with some added weight for better collision protection and a tiny bit more
comfort, but many "sports" coupes and sedans are hitting 3300-3500 lbs right
now which seems excessive if driving dynamics truly is a core focus. Heck,
from a handling standpoint, I think my smallish convertible is porky at
nearly 2900 lbs!
IMHO, it's mainly about comfort these days (which I'm guilty of to an
extent), and as long as manufacturers continue to find ways to crank out
massive hp, they won't get creative about weight reduction in mass-produced
vehicles. The majority of consumers will never care how much a car weighs
anyway as long as it has decent hp, feels quick in a straight line, and
doesn't get 10 MPG. Unfortunately, many consumers also think that safety is
all in the car, and in their mind, the bigger and more solid feeling, the
better. It doesn't seem many people respect or understand that safe,
defensive driving really is a skill. The market's driven by complacency and
a definition of sports car competency that some of us don't agree with.
Alan
Don McCorkle
No, it was about who could put the most performance-tuned cubic inches
under the hood, regardless of intended use.
Precisely. The Lotus is also targeted at a very different market.
Dodge is simply trying to do the same thing Ford did. And watch for the
new old Camaro from Chevrolet in 2007.
I drive a 2004 Crown Victoria LX Sport. Good solid car, fast when it
needs to be, and has the added benefit of looking like a cop car (to
keep the bozos at bay, at least temporarily).
