rec.autos.simulators

9800 problem

Sondo

9800 problem

by Sondo » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 11:46:04

I just installed a 9800 128mb non-pro in my computer.  I was going to
replace my gf 4200 because  I was able to get the ATI card for $199.  I
uninstalled the Nvidia drivers and then installed the standard vga drivers
prior to installing the 9800.  I plugged the card in and then installed the
latest Omega drivers.  All seemed to go well.  I then benchmarked using
3dmark2001se.  With my GF 4200 128mb I got around 10000.  With the Omega
drivers and the 9800 I got 12398.  I thought this seemed a little low.  I
then went to play NASCAR 2003 with D3D, I left my previous in game settings
alone so I could get a good comparison.  Where I was getting 36 fps with the
GF 4200 in ogl, I was now getting 34 ogl, and 28 D3D with the 9800.  I know
this cannot be right.  Looking at the benchmarks and reading information on
different sites, it should be much faster.
   In the ATI control panel I had left many of the options in the middle or
on the low side as far as AA goes.  I had to change AGP to 4x form 1x.  I
turned vsync to always off.  I had write fast on and off with no difference.
I then thought maybe it was the Omega drivers, so I downloaded the cat 3.9.
No changes except my benchmark dropped into the 11500 range.  I even changed
the power connector thinking it might have something to do with it.  This is
very disappointing.  I was really looking forward to this card.  According
to Tom's Hardware it should roughly be twice as fast as my gf4200.  This is
my second attempt with ATI, when I was replacing my gf3 I tried a 9500 pro.
It also was slower than my gf3.  I am willing to try a few more things, but
quite honestly I'm not sure what else there is to do.  I tried running
Detonator RIP but I just get some error message, I think because I had
already uninstalled the drivers.  About a week ago I loaded the latest MB
drivers, so my system is up to date. I'm not sure that would be it anyway,
my system works fine with the 4200.  I could really use some help with this
one.  I know my way around the pc pretty well, I'm just not familiar with
ATI.  Thanks for reading.

P.S.  I am also going to post this in the ATI group.

MSI NForce 1 Motherboard
512 mb ram
wd 40 gb hd
onboard 5.1 sound
XP 2400+
Windows XP Home

rms

9800 problem

by rms » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:06:30

    This is a bit questionable, an old design.  Still.  Have you installed
the latest nvidia drivers?  Also, you say the AGP speed was set to 1x by
smartgart?  Very suspicious, as it would seem to indicate some problem
running at full-speed.  The first thing I would do is raise the AGP voltage
in bios one or two notches to 1.7v.  This often solves these sorts of
problems.

rms

Dave Henri

9800 problem

by Dave Henri » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:23:38

"Sondog"

   The Nforce1 boards were known as slow mb's weren't they?   I think what you
 are seeing is the speed of the vidcard not maxing out because your resolution
 is not high enough...
The ATI cards are not much faster than the nvidia cards at medium to low resolutions..they begin to separate when you start adding screen size and special features...
so the ATI cards aren't so much faster as they don't slow down as much.
  If you compared the two cards at higher screen rez's you'd probably see more
 difference.  Plus there is a good chance you have lots of old nvidia driver files still
on your system.  Check out some of the driver cleaner programs that are out there.
   ANd next...try disabling that onboard sound and compare them again...
Good luck...
dave henrie

Sondo

9800 problem

by Sondo » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:33:26

I don't know about slow, my buddy just built a 2400+ on the NForce 2
chipset, same gf 4200, same ram, and he gets about 4 fps better than me
running identical in game setup.  I play my games at 1024x768.  My MB is 2
years old.  Reading the different benchmarks at 1024x768, I thought the 9800
would be much faster.  But it's actually slower.  Very strange.  Thanks for
the reply.

Jeff


resolutions..they begin to separate when you start adding screen size and
special features...

- Show quoted text -

Alan L

9800 problem

by Alan L » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:55:53

difference.

Were you running AA and AF on the Nvidia card?  With the ATI cards, you
still see a hit in FPS with AA and AF on, but it's not nearly as large as it
is on the Nvidia cards (pre-FX at least).  My guess is you weren't using
either before.  Try setting and AA and AF to Application Preference and see
what happens.

Alan

MadDAW

9800 problem

by MadDAW » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:10:54


From the systems I have seen there is a pretty big differance between a
Nforce1 and Nforce2.

MadDAWG

Joao Gonzale

9800 problem

by Joao Gonzale » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:02:06


I went from a GF4400 to a 9800 Pro and, in some sims (e.g. N2003) the frame
rates actually went down a bit but the image quality improved a lot. In the
GF you can turn off AA and AF completely where as in the 9800 I don't know
how to do it (I can just set it to the minimum).

I would risk saying that "application controlled" AA and AF does no always
work as expected.

Nevertheless it is very much worth the change because the new look is much
better!

JG

Sondo

9800 problem

by Sondo » Tue, 09 Dec 2003 23:40:27

Yes I was running quincunx aa and anio off with the nvidia card.  I had
these off and then tried them on with the ati card.  No difference.  Someone
in the ati group suggested a fresh install of the os.  I refuse to go that
far.

Jeff


MadDAW

9800 problem

by MadDAW » Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:05:56

That is actually not that "far".  With any major hardware change in a system
geared for performance there is nothing better than starting fresh.  True it
can be a PITA if you have a lot of stuff to back up. Thats why my old game
machine is now my email reader and file server.  :)  Also I partiton my
harddrives with a second partiton around 5 gig. Whenever I get new drivers,
game patches, etc I save them there as well.  Then when it comes time for a
fresh install I don't need to download anything and can get a game box back
up and running pretty quick.

MadDAWG

Eric Leblan

9800 problem

by Eric Leblan » Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:50:52

Is you motherboard AGP 8x?

EL


Eric Leblan

9800 problem

by Eric Leblan » Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:52:24

If your mobo is not AGP 8x don't expect a big difference. Get a new mobo.

EL


Andre

9800 problem

by Andre » Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:53:09

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:52:24 -0500, "Eric Leblanc"


>If your mobo is not AGP 8x don't expect a big difference. Get a new mobo.

Upgrade a motherboard to get AGP 8X? Are you mad? AGP speeds have very
little relevence to the speed of games.
--

Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text.
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Sondo

9800 problem

by Sondo » Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:08:48

I subscribe to Maximum PC (outstanding mag by the way), and they had an
issue over the spring benchmarking various new technologies form memory to
agp and every component of the pc.  And there was no advantage of agp 8.
I'm sure there may be some day, but right now that's not it.  I just went
out and bought a WD 80gb hd with 8mb cache for $99, I was going to do it
this winter anyway.  My Win XP hd (small 6GB) is full, so I might as well do
the format anyway.  We'll see how it turns out.  I'll be formatting my 40gb
also so there will be no display drivers for an Nvidia card anywhere.  Just
MB drivers for the Nvidia mb.  Wish me luck.  A few hours of backup ahead of
me.  Thanks for the suggestions so far.

Jeff


> On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:52:24 -0500, "Eric Leblanc"

> >If your mobo is not AGP 8x don't expect a big difference. Get a new mobo.

> Upgrade a motherboard to get AGP 8X? Are you mad? AGP speeds have very
> little relevence to the speed of games.
> --

> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

Eric Leblan

9800 problem

by Eric Leblan » Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:44:42

Get a new mobo then....:-)

EL

> On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:52:24 -0500, "Eric Leblanc"

> >If your mobo is not AGP 8x don't expect a big difference. Get a new mobo.

> Upgrade a motherboard to get AGP 8X? Are you mad? AGP speeds have very
> little relevence to the speed of games.
> --

> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

Slas

9800 problem

by Slas » Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:47:24

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:44:42 -0500, "Eric Leblanc"

He's right. Get the newest of the new, pop an 8x card in there, and
then set the BIOS to 4x AGP. Unless you're running de*** apps that
test specific D3D functions (AGP swapping) you're going to lose no
more than 1% of your speed, if even that. 8x is nearly meaningless
from a performance perspective.

-Slash
--
"Ebert Victorious"
       -The Onion


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